DPS Coercer Help

Discussion in 'Coercer' started by ARCHIVED-Jenevive, Jun 11, 2008.

  1. ARCHIVED-Jenevive Guest

    I am not typically a 'board person' and I have scanned a few posts looking for tips but I believe I need serious help. I have an 80 Coercer. She is my favorite 80 of the 3 I have. I play her the most and she is the one I raid with. All her spells are A3s and less than a handful are M1s. She has decent gear - almost all legendary with quite a few fabled pieces mixed in. She has her epic. I can provide a breakdown of gear or stats if that would be helpful. I don't EVER make the DPS parse. I found out the other day while in Vaults there was one particular fight where the guardian was just auto-attacking using NO combat abilities while I'm hammering out every spell I have and I came in just below him on the parse (averaging about 700). Unacceptable. I understand I am primarily a support/utility class. I will probably never out DPS a wizard or a swashie. However, I have been out DPS'd by a healer before, and that's just not right. What am I doing wrong? How do I need to improve? I certainly don't consider myself a newbie yet something isn't right and I haven't figured out the problem myself.
    Spell questions:
    1st - in order of priority (lets just say the top 5-8), what masters are most important to get (for DPS)?
    2nd - when the fight starts, in what order should I be spamming my spells? So far, I usually start with a DD nuke and then just go down the line of DOT spells, with the biggest DOT first.
    Charm/Pet question:
    I obviously know that a pet will add DPS (although I don't know how significant). When raiding, I am either in the MT or MA group. No one wants me to have a pet because it means Impetus isn't available. Does having Impetus on between 1 - 3 people equate to more damage collectively (for them) than if I was to use Possess Essence? Can I even use PE in a raid? I know Charm doesn't work on an epic. PE means I have to get awfully close (without aggro) and I'm not even sure if it can be done. Do I try to insist on having a pet at all times to help with DPS?
    Admittedly I have waited to adorn my gear, knowing it would only get better and not wanting to spend the $$ to adorn something that will only get discarded because something better has come along. I'm finally to the point where there's not a lot better that can come along and I'm willing to make the investment. Do I go for INT every place I possibly can? Are there other adornments that will help increase my DPS that I should definately go for? Do I go for a 1% crit change or a +50 mental?
    AA Lines:
    I have respec'd my AA to try to give me the greatest opportunity for DPS possible. I even gave up the hate transfer/reduction and heal spell crit % to help my DPS. I think I'm missing something. What tree(s) should I be going down? I know there is a line (I currently don't have it) that adds some decent DPS when low on mana. The problem I have is - I'm NEVER low on mana. I could spam every nuke I have and I can't get myself below 90%. Should I keep the sprint key on to keep my mana low and try that line instead?
    I'm sure there are other things I'm not thinking of. I've tried carefully reading the description of every spell and educate myself on when and how to use it. I am typically the only mage doing melee just so I can utilize Hostage.
    Please give me any tips, suggestions and comments you have to offer on this. I have become disheartened, especially after hearing how everyone's 'ideal group' consists of an illusionist, leaving the coercer left out in the cold. Although betraying has become a sad possibility, I'd like to give this class everything I can before admitting defeat.
    Thanks =)
  2. ARCHIVED-Mendou Guest

    I'm not a raiding coercer, but I can clarify a few points for you. Coercer spells & AA's were revamped here recently. For DPS I understand AGI/ INT is the way to go. AGI for fast casting and INT for Volatile Magic. Volatile Magic was recently changed from a DPS boost when under 30% power to a flat DPS boost... no reason to worry about juggling power level.
    Next, power drains were replaced with damage. This means even our stifle spell does damage so feel free to work it into the rotation.
    The reactives will now pretty much burn through their charges fairly quickly. Hostage will proc off of anyone doing melee damage so assuming someone is whacking the mob it should proc. The Spell Lash one will proc off of any hostile spell. Cataclysmic Mind is now a buff you can put on an ally (including self) that will do extra damage when that toon casts a hostile spell... so another damage multiplier. Make sure you throw them out there. If you're only using your DD and DoT spells you're missing out on a lot of firepower.
    Also, Tashaina has been revamped to debuff all magic damage, not just mental. This is more help to your group as a whole, but debuff = more damage so always a good thing.
    *EDIT: Forgot about the pet stuff. PE pets are a bit watered down from the charmed version, but they are unbreakable and scale up to your level. In a group that's short a person it might be a decent/safe boost, but in my experience it's more of a solo/situational tool. In the groups I've had since our revamp I've seriously had to back down my DPS to keep from ripping agro. Assuming I'm not watching my agro I can stay in the 2nd or 3rd spot on a parse pretty easily (especially when linked encounters are pulled)... and that's without Volatile Magic (my group spec is AGI/STA). Once you update your spell rotation I don't think you'll be as tempted to try to run with a pet in a group. Of course, it would be fun to do so, but it seems to me that keeping the tank buffed and the agro-hogs under control (self included, lol) with buffs is more productive than running with a pet in a full group.
  3. ARCHIVED-Rijacki Guest

    The order you cast your spells IS important.

    Think about how the reactives now work. They react to the actions of you or your team.

    First, make a macro so that Tyrraneous Mind (or earlier versions of it for those who are lower level) will be cast on you and no body but you :)
    1. With the spell on your hotbar, right-click and select "Create Macro...".
    2. The macro editor will be handy and pre-start the macro for you with the spell as the first "function".
    3. There will be an edit line to the right of the spell in the commands window, type your character's name there.
    4. At the top of the whole macro editor window, there will be another edit line for you to name the macro, type in something (mine is called "Do you Mind?") or leave it with the spell name.
    5. Click okay at the bottom.
    6. Since you created it from your hotbar, the macro will take the place of the spell there, no need to go find it and move it there.
    (7. If you're lower level, be sure to change the spell used in the macro when you get a new one.)

    Now... casting for optimising..

    1. If you have Tashiana, open with it since it is designed to be easier to land to make everyone else's debuffs land easier.
    2. I will often then cast Obliterated Psyche (Damaged Psyche line, first one at 28) since it's a fast cast and a debuff, too.
    3. At this point I cast Tyrranous Mind (Despotic Mind line, first one at 28) unless I was smart and precast it at the very last of the count down before pull. Mind will trigger on the next damage related casts, so I want it up before them. (Sometimes I will intentionally wait until this 3rd spot to cast TM because I am also trying to time my damage spikes so -I- don't become an arasai snack for the target).
    4. Cast Spell Curse (Spell Lash line, first one is at 40, if you're less than 40 skip this step, obviously *grin*). This will trigger off the next several (how many depends on your Achievements) damage spells cast by you or an ally so putting it here means more damage from the next few casts if you're soloing or almost so fast it doesn't look like the spell landed if you're in a raid (i.e. other mages' damage spells triggered it). Note: this will trigger Mind (which is why you cast Mind before it).
    5. Cast Hostage (Sibyllant line, first one is at 23). This will trigger off the next several (depends on Achievements) melee hits by your allies. If you're soloing, either you or your pet needs to be doing melee in addition to or instead of casting for this to trigger. In a raid, like Lash, this will often land and disappear fast because of of the flurry of melee hits on the target. Note: this will also trigger Mind (and is another reason you cast Mind before it, too *grin*).
    6. Cast Asylum (Gloom line, first one at 11). This is a debuff as well as a DoT so it could actually be beneficial earlier before Lash and Hostage but I tend to blend it in here. Note: this will trigger Mind (which is why you cast Mind before it).
    7. Cast Hemorrhage (Mind Shock line, first one at 1). This is our single DD nuke. This will trigger Mind if it is still up (Asylum should have been the last trigger, though, and Mind is likely not up yet again).
    8. Cast Brainshock (Cerebral Shock line, first at 3). The reason you don't want this earlier is because of the current bug that has the Shock line taking 2 triggers of Mind while only giving one damage. Casting it as the last trigger of Mind or when Mind's triggers are up but it's not ready to recast means you don't lost any Mind triggers :)

    After those... well... I cast TM when ever it's up. I cast Spell Curse and Hostage whenever they're up. I time Brainshock to the last trigger of Mind or when Mind is out of triggers. I mix in the Ego Melt (Ego Shock line), Puppetmaster, Shock Wave (Psychic Wail line), and other stuff, casting Obliterated Psyche to time out other casts and keep my Perpetuality going.

    I'm pretty much consistantly parsing above the illusionist in our raid now unless he's in the mage group -with- a troubie (no one has their mythicals) and even without the illy buff for more damage and in the MT group. I'm almost always in the top ten now in my guild raids *impish grin*. We're "just" T2, though, but I'm generally hitting 2.5K parse on the longer (i.e. named) fights and even without ideal gear. (The illy is doing a bit higher damage than he did pre-45, I just keep getting better in my timing with the new spells).

    Oh... and I will be the first to admit I am not the "best" coercer, but I don't suck, either *laugh*.

    Oh.. upgrades... MIND!!! Lash is handy, too. I have MII for my Hemorrhage. Hostage is a good one, too. Asylum and Psyche (just got my OP master on Tues before the raid). Umm.. I need a memo to remind me to upgrade my Silence...
  4. ARCHIVED-JesDer Guest

  5. ARCHIVED-Scyen Guest

    im a 79 Coercer, being a raid dps got about 1.6k-2.4k
    using T7 master mostly, in int+agi aa for dps

    thats my spell order
    debuff >Cataclysmic Mind > reactive dot > spam other DD, dot

    pet never be my choice for dps,
    i rather give conc for dps buff, or put link on wiz/warlock

    pet are all for fun / solo
  6. ARCHIVED-Jenevive Guest

    I wanted to thank you all for your suggestions - especially that link to eq2 flames - talk about information, I think that's more than I really wanted to know!
    Based on the Coercer guide that was linked, I respec'd my AAs (currently at 129) completely. I am concentrating on my INT and AGI and expect to have INT at 1000 soon.
    I can tell you that I was under the mistaken impression that I couldn't cast Tyrannous Mind on myself. When reading the description of the spell it says 'Group Friend' so I never even tried. That mistake has been corrected & a macro has been made because afterall - it's all about me!
    I am thrilled to report that I have tripled my DPS and am now parsing at 2k.
    Thank you again and my illusions of betraying have been coerced right out of me.
  7. ARCHIVED-Mendou Guest

  8. ARCHIVED-JesDer Guest

    Jenevive wrote:
    Happy it helped ... eq2flames is the best place I have found for detailed info on just about any class. You just need to look past the flames part

    On the Tyrannous mind .. I was in a group with a mage that was DPSing really low. So I started putting Tyrannous on him and he got all happy ... eventually I told him what I was doing, but it was fun for a little while ;)

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