DoF Beta Feedback

Discussion in 'General TLE Discussion' started by Adoninilol, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. jessejames Active Member

    I appreciate people like you do all that work. What's sad is that the community has to do this work. They have databases that make this information easier to access and don't look at it themselves.

    What have the devs being saying on discord about beta and the issues people are having?
  2. dirgenoobforreal Well-Known Member

    HQ reward will stay as it is.
    Prismatic 2.0 proc will be better.
    Loot from heroics have been changed, does not sound like it will be changed any further.
    DoF BETA end date:
  3. Grrrrrl New Member

    Has anyone else noticed zero mobs are rootable in sinking sands? On my fury i tested this out after noticing the first few mobs just came towards me without hesitation. Anything that wasnt epic or way off the beaten path seems to not be rootable.
  4. jessejames Active Member

    As of the moment of this post the bug preventing the last named in roost dropping a chest hasn't been fixed.
  5. jessejames Active Member

    I went in dungeons and instances and root was working fine.

    Edit : as reliable as it ever was lol
  6. Sigrdrifa Well-Known Member

    What level and what quality is your root spell?
  7. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    I was using numbing cold in a group with a wizard the day beta opened and it was working.
  8. Davito Active Member

    Solo' a bunch of stuff on a wizard yesterday with no issues.
  9. Alenna Well-Known Member

    same here on beta buffed wizard. going to try on beta buffed conji as my conji was only 29. but the buffer box for mage still has plate gloves instead of cloth gloves how do they expect us to test if they don't put the right equipment in the buffer boxes.
  10. Fyreflyte Well-Known Member

    It is simply not practical to hand-tune every piece of gear in each expansion. Most of the common items are tuned by an algorithm, and then I go through some of the more prominent raid and heroic gear and hand-tune those. An algorithm has no way of knowing how effective a proc on an item is, and even when I look at something like that, I have limited information on which to determine whether it's worth eating a stat slot for. I make the best call I can, but in those situations I rely heavily on feedback from players who are able to test the effect directly.

    I have received itemization feedback from a large and varied number of players, and have made changes based on it when they seem healthy for the game. While I appreciate your feedback as well, you have not by any means, "itemized everything". DoF (and Vanilla) was a much different era, where legendary quality gear wasn't even available, and most raid mobs dropped treasured gear 90% of the time. I've added hundreds of items, and corrected as many loot tables to try to smooth progression and address those issues, but it's still going to be far from perfect. Everyone can continue to help by sending us feedback (here or on Discord - I read both). I read all of the feedback, even when I don't have time to reply to it.

    That's a pretty insulting statement. Why is it sad that the community is able to help improve the game they play? In terms of time spent, if just 20 players beta test for a total of 4 hours apiece over the course of a day or two, that feedback is equivalent to two full weeks of my time (far more than I could currently devote to DoF tuning). I don't have some magical item balancing tool that I'm just refusing to look at; I have an absolutely enormous set of data and a limited amount of time in which to try to balance it all as best I can for the largest number of players. Itemization changes are not isolated; every item tuned affects others, and may affect other classes differently than yours. There is no perfect way to balance a system this complex, especially by simply viewing the numbers in a spreadsheet. In the end, I do the best job I can based on those numbers, but also rely on feedback from players testing their performance in-game.
    Carynn, Bekkr, vexen and 7 others like this.
  11. Fyreflyte Well-Known Member

    We weren't able to reproduce this internally, and it sounds like the issue is not affecting many other players, if any. Is it still occurring for you, and if so, is it limited to a specific character, or is it affecting all of your characters?
  12. jessejames Active Member

    I appreciate the dev feedback and sorry if you feel like I insulted you. As far as combat wise (solo group) I think it is good, drops suck compared to comparable T5 content. As far as raid. I only tested a few like courts and combat wise it is easy but it is also supposed to be so. Items are better for the difficulty but I just think if someone doesn't raid there is no where for them to get OK gear. I'd like to try some of the harder raid and group content soon. And honestly what is the best way to feedback? I think devs and players alike all want this to work and not fail like stormhold.
    Ceyllynn likes this.
  13. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    How is it not practical to itemize individual items? How else will itemization actually be in a useable state? Go look back the DoV itemization threads from six years ago, people were strongly against the itemization bots because the stats weren't in a cohesive usable state, and it required a lot of dev time later to fix items that were not useable.

    I really don't understand the whole we don't have time thing, us players on TLE are paying customers just as much as the people on live. Yet we are told that changes to our server are less important to things like expansions for live, and this was the same thing that happened on Stormhold.

    A suggestion that I would give is to just give us a full time developer who can actually balance all the raid content and fix all the itemization problems that we have, when he isn't busy on TLE move him over to live. There are PAGES of feedback from stormhold about drops not being worth it in group zones, zones not even dropping loot, raid bosses being too easy, and the lack of developer response to the issues at hand. Those same bugs, made it to the new TLE. Two years later. This to me says that our feedback is negligible, we didn't even get responses to any of those threads other than locking/deleting posts that talked about the issues at hand.

    Moving back to itemization, look at vanilla, the level fifty gear. There are some "druid" pieces that have no casting speed, crit, or ability mod, yet the same exact equivalent for clerics has all three of the stats that obviously every healer would want. I don't see how large oversights like this are missed, unless the gear is just simply not being looked at and its being shipped out. The same problem is appearing in DoF now.

    Gear at the moment in DoF has no progression what so ever, if I kill a trash mob in Gates I can get a best in slot scout chest piece yet when I kill djinn master I get a piece of gear that would go to an alt, this is feedback players have already given from the beginning of TLE. People have been complaining that treasured gear from random quests beats raid gear since the first month of stormhold. Looking at zone progression lets look at commune of k'dal, a super easy mob drops some of the best in slot gear yet contested Venekor for weeks was dropping complete and utter trash despite being a much harder mob.

    How can someone ever say that things like that are working? I can understand going off of some form of algorithm but personally going through every single raid item in DoF and determining that around 90% of them have incorrect stat layouts/are overpowered/unpowered compared to others is pretty discouraging. I can sit here and say okay: mages need x stats, scouts need x stats, priests want x stats, but that should be obvious. I've been determining that who chain gear is intended for is a few things, the name and if it has magical or weaponry skills on it. Looking at some "shaman" gloves the best pair has casting speed and ability mod, cool, this item in particular has three stats (ab mod, casting, and magical skills) and most have four. I don't know if the algorithm determines that certain stats have more of a "value" than others but I would assume this is the case. But if you look at another best in slot shaman piece it's a scout piece, because their just simply isn't a shaman piece itemized at all, yet we have 3-4 of basically the same item from different mobs.

    Just because DoF/Vanilla were "different times" and the game had poor direction that made raid mobs drop treasured, that doesn't mean it has to be same this time around. I can sit here and give you feedback for days, but as to what you take in and actually change is another thing.

    Stormhold was completely disastrous itemization wise, players in disturbance made entire spreadsheets fixing every single item in KoS and received no fixes or help from the developers, the issues continued when RoK was completely unitemized at the beginning.

    The response/fixes on this server are leaps and bounds better than stormhold, but they still miss the mark.
  14. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    I would also like to point out that this is the first developer response we have gotten in this section in the past month.
    jessejames likes this.
  15. jessejames Active Member

    Tried to raid pedestal of sky... Used split tanking and tanks were getting hit for 21k... With t5 raid gear and t6 gear provided and channeler. Not quite twice the hps of our tank but seems overtuned. I don't see the point in a mob hitting for more hps than a tank has. Channy intercept and keeping wards on only go so far. There's only so much you can do strat wise to overcome straight auto attack damage. Cast wards and heals while 100% health and pray. Not an issue of an AE, not an issue of a cure.
  16. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    Thats not terrible, darathar was hitting for more before he was nerfed. With more stamina/mitigation from gear/ non adept spells it's probably doable.

    Were you three healering groups or just two?
  17. Begeast Member

    This is exactly what happened on deathtoll/stormhold. An insulting allocation of resources.
    Mizgamer62 likes this.
  18. Atan Well-Known Member

    Just my $0.02, and it isn't directly related to beta, but is related to TLE.

    It is fairly apparent how TLE is a cash cow for DBG, but if you are not reaching the revenue level to dedicate a developer to this stream, then you really should just shut it down. Either do TLE and do it justice, or don't do it at all.

    I know I and many others came back and gave DBG a second chance cause it appeared they were making an earnest effort of making a workable TLE. Looking at this beta is casting significant doubts that DBG is returning our investment by providing more than paltry support of this community slice.

    I know times are tough, but if you want the continued success of this stream, you're going to have to chose to invest something back on it.

    *** Edit ***

    On another thought, if investing back into TLE isn't plausible, consider community sourcing this instead. I think the community could provide proposed itemization and potentially other tuning inputs if you simply publish the format you would like it provided in.

    I believe that would be a significant opportunity for DBG to consider a TLE that is community sourced, and you could continue to squeeze revenue out of it in the same way you have other TLEs.
    Mizgamer62 likes this.
  19. Dude Well-Known Member

    I guess I just don't understand why there's that much to be beta tested. Isn't this the third time through for all of this content?
  20. jessejames Active Member

    Yes 3 healed.

    "Before he was nerfed" because the devs realized that is too hard for a mob to be hitting.

    And with better gear and spells maybe you are right and it would be considered manageable. But we have 7 days of beta and it took 2.5 of them to get all our toons here. 5 days isn't enough to farm masters for our people and gear them up. What is the point of beta if we can't properly test it out? Maybe with all that stuff it is a properly tuned fight, maybe it isn't and we got to wait half way in the expansion for him to be really killable. I thought the point of beta was supposed to test these things.

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