DKP point revolution!

Its funny how you are so mad some officers/GL's didn't give you loot you think you deserved.

If leaders were TRULY overly abusing their power guess what? People would leave, and most likely to guilds who don't have such terrible leaders. No, there is no comparison with Saddam Hussein. Not only is that argument ignorant its quite frankly insensitive. How you don't see the difference between the two is baffling. One is extremely easy and only requires a few button presses, the other could mean you get killed for even trying.

The base problem of this is robbing guilds of running their community as they see fit. The current system isn't communism or dictatorship, its a free market. If a guild is ran well people flock to it and they succeed. If they do poorly people leave and it falls. It's that simple. If a guild does well with leader assigned loot how they see fit, good for them. Whatever they are doing is working and they deserve the rewards they get.

Thank you for the move.

You seem to believe that the system you suggest is fool proof because leader hands won't be touching the DKP...only SOE would be touching the dkp. In light of the fact that my guilds achievements have been reset for the 3 time in as many weeks, I think I'll keep the spreadsheets and tracking site TYVM.

yes, thanks for the move into "off topic" crybabies, great way to shut down the hottest topic in a forum.
bye

no because it also would work against and new players. so say joe starts the game, gets his toon up in 2 weeks and joins a raid. in the raid everyone has been playing for 2+ years and have dkp worth of it do you think Joe or ANY new player will have Any chance at raid loot for atleast 2 years ...No its a Very flawed ideah

dkp points aren't like farming plat. you get them, you spend them, they're gone.
Participate in 2-3 raid evenings in a decent guild and you get your gear. Obviously you don't raid at all, cause 2 years is nonsense. Only dealbreaker can be stupid guild rules banning people from spending their earned DKP, which my proposed in-game DKP would not allow.
I'm sure one of the next MMOs will bring along a decent in-game DKP system, and people gonna LOVE it, even those who are against it in this thread.
>>dkp rEVOLution<<
proper thread title

I originally thought this was a troll post. I did not think anyone in their right mind could be so daft about what the real purpose of dkp is to the game as the OP is. DKP is not solely about you the player. DKP is a representation of your efforts within a particular guild. The items you wear are a reward to you for your active participation in the advancement of said guild. The items are not because your Joe cool super best friend of the raid leader. Guilds that reward in that fashion do not advance well because most people with any sense at all find no reward for their effort and so they look elsewhere.

You are wanting a raid achievement currency feature that you allows you to stockpile Dunce Kill Points on level 50 raids and then in return use them to buy gear from some future EQ2 expansion because your "DKP" carried over from some other magical forest you were running through when you joined that new guild. Thusly you seek to force that guild into providing you with equipment you do not rate. You seek to walk into a new raid zone on day 1 and obtain gear you have no right to obtain from your efforts at soloing PR a zillion times and earning in game "DKP."

Loot is about guild advancement. You may not think or believe this but to the general mass of the raiding community from casual to hardcore this is a truism. Loot needs to be fairly distributed based upon a pre-agreed raid loot policy and it needs to be transparent and flexible to potential changes as things do change. Loot sometimes needs to go to the appropriate person/class whom the guild officers/raid leader decides can most impact the guild progression. That person is not some new join who is not geared well enough to make it into death group 4 because they are still wearing island gear but are expecting super awesome weapon/trinket/BP because they duo'd PR 3 gazillion times with a merc and an accumulation of "DKP" from lower level raids. Guild advancement is about the guild not the individual.

Individuals are rewarded, and sometimes disappointed, based on the needs of the guild when some particular rare item drops and the raid leader/guild leader has decided that the particular item is only for alpha damage scouts or shamans over clerics due to some property/effect/proc of the item. This is why in most guilds that have a proper player culture off tanks will not bid against the main tank. Now that we have moved from the solo main tank concept to a tanking team tanks generally discuss amongst themselves which items they have a need priority for. You see, most of us share because we know its about guild advancement. When the guild advances we advance. This is why classes talk amongst themselves at what items they most need to complete their job and sometimes make agreements not to bid against each other etc. In guilds with a solid atmosphere of respect for each other this works out well and keeps the guild moving forward - people get over these initial disappointments because they know item A will drop again.

Free agents seeking all the gear for themselves are not conducive to team based play. I would postulate that your attitude of expectation is the single most flawed in game character trait that is holding you back from really enjoying a proper end game experience. Skill can be improved and counseled and worked on. Character flaws/greed need to be recognized and improved by the end user.

BTW: Crusaders casting on the move is, was, and always will be, an absolute terrible idea that should never have come to pass (rangers too). I would not take credit for that gem of a flawed idea if paid to. Why can healers and casters not cast on the move now? See that slope? It is not too far off.


*************
TLR
1.) Seeking free gear based off farming in game "dkp" points is a more flawed idea than crusaders and rangers casting on the run. Forcing guilds to reward a player for their past achievements in some other guild is a terrible way to promote team based play because it does not reward the team members contributing towards the current content - it seeks to reward some random PC who just joined and has millions of in game DKP from farming Cove of Decay and PR.

2.) /Crankyoldmanvoice What happened to that old school community I used to love. Any member of that crowd would not ever entertain this sort of idea. What has happened to the gaming community? We used to look out for each other, play well together (generally) and/or police ourselves (want to buy account ignore feature for EQNext). We used to be happy for other members of our group/raid won something. Now the community seems to be turning into a bunch of selfish crybabies that want everything handed to them. Very few people want to work for something towards a common goal anymore. In my day we used to raid uphill both ways in the snow only to get the loot chest stuck in the ceiling and we loved it. No crying in those days when someone else won something. /rant off

3.) Don't like the current system: START your own guild and use your rules - see how many like minded people flock to you.

your rant was obsolete and beside the point. I clearly stated that every guild should have the option to disable "importing" DKP.

So you want the development team to waste time and effort developing a feature everyone will just disable? That's an even better idea than your original idea.

you can disable the option to allow new members to keep their DKP, but you cant disable the automatic DKP log in a raid which keeps track of how much you earned, how much you spent, and what loot you can roll on (current or declared class).
don't waste my time, read my old posts before you talk out of your backside.

I have read your posts and unfortunately I can not get that time back - but I do not mind spending the last few minutes of my lunch break arguing with a nit wit. Your lack of intelligence on this subject humors me to no end. All of this "magical" information (DKP accumulation and expenditure, etc) can be placed on a spread sheet quite easily and shared with the entire raid/guild/alliance for tracking purposes. That you are somehow incapable of doing this is beyond me. There is nothing magical about dkp accumulation, tracking, and expenditure. It is basic accounting. As you do not know what polysci is you might not understand a big word like accounting. Accounting is the science of adding and subtracting numbers on a balance sheet (DKP Spread Sheet) kk peaches?

This topic is only hot because everyone is coming here to tell you how idiotic you are.
It's not like your idea is popular with anyone, and clearly it's the exact opposite, so don't try to say it is.

All the guilds I've been in (I've only been in a few, I don't like changing tags) have done loot fairly, whether or not I liked the way they did it, it wasn't aimed against me or any other players.

While YOU may be sore that you've lost a piece of loot or something, or didn't get an item you wanted, the rest of us are content. Comparing dictatorships to item loot in a game is laughable. This is something we're doing to relax from work, school, or whatever the hell isn't your gaming life. This has literally nothing in common with Saddam Hussein.

I don't think you understand what it means to be part of a guild. You being an individual matters less, as you've banned together with other individuals to become something stronger. Before I stopped raiding, yes I would get annoyed by a chest full of fighter loot, and for gods sake, half the mobs in Drunder seemed to love dropping nothing but fighter chests, but overall, I could look at it and say: "well, this will help our tanks out I guess" and with a better geared MT, you'll be able to progress further and farm faster.

If you're an active and helpful/friendly member of your guild that contributes, I guarantee that unless your guild is greedy as balls and doesn't like progression (though tbh, it doesn't sound like you have experience with a progression guild), you'll have your guildies wanting you to get geared up as well. They don't want you being super-squishy when they're moving on to the next zone, because then they might as well drop you from the raid force. And if you didn't matter, then you probably weren't contributing anything, and didn't need or deserve to get loot anyways.

While I was apped to my last guild (keep in mind, apped, not even member at the time), I had members who realized I was squishy, which wasn't a surprise since I was coming from a guild that barely raided HM content, I had members who passed on loot that would have been an upgrade for them, simply because it was a bigger upgrade for me. (Shout out to Sylow there! )
Obviously, that didn't happen all the time, and isn't going to happen every time, but what comes around goes around. It was a nice treat if and when it did happen,
If you're the kind of person that is this greedy and picky/crabby about loot, I'm going to guess that nobody felt like passing on loot for you. Change your attitude and find one of the many guilds that is serious about being a raid force, not just gearing up their characters.

Since raiding is about killing mobs and not just the cool gear that pops out of chests.

Anonymity is such a better place to complain from, than having the faith and courage in your ideas to sign your name to them

DKP is not a transferrable currency.

DKP is essentially a system for gaining favor or faction with a particular guild. That 'faction' is the particular and relative relationship with a member and their guild. Each guild has its own set of 'quests' to raise it, and any 'reward' claimed by a member against that 'faction' lowers it. DKP is probably most like a system of favors performed in return for 'faction' or points, for a particular guild by its members and a basis to collect and account for those claims made by the members. A perfect example in game exists that should clearly demonstrate this distinction: deities.

Each guild has their own values and goals, and method and means of reward. Thus the same task performed for guild A might be worth 5 guild faction points, but for the same item worth 10 for guild B, and not worth anything to guild C (because the favor and item has varied value to the guild as a whole; usually the favor and item are more helpful to some guilds than to others). Likewise, with rewards, for guild A item X is valued at 20 points, for B item X is worth 5, and for C X is not worth anything and thus can't be claimed with favor, faction, or DKP (probably cash/universal currency bids or complete open random).

It is conceivable that a method may exist to 'normalize' all the systems in some fashion; yet, still allow the flexibility, but it would be a lot of work for everyone. More work than it would ultimately be worth as the result would be unwieldy in comparison to what happens now and what still lack any exchange value from a guild's perspective. If they did implement 'normalized' DKP, we still face the problem of how to exchange the favor performed for guild A by player M to a new guild C. Guild A does not gain anything from taking guild B's DKP. Player M did not perform any tasks for guild A. Guild C gains nothing from accepting faction or favors earned by player M for either guild A or guild B's. Qeynos does not care that you have great faction in Freeport, if anything they would probably have you followed if you were spotted in or around town with that kind of faction. Zek does not care that you saved all the bunnies for Tunare. Zek is actually a bit mad about that...

I hope that you understand and appreciate that DKP is not simply a set of achievements that are universally recognizable. It is an accounting system for favors. Nothing more. It is a particular guild's particular faction. No guild recognizes another guilds favors, faction, or DKP, as equivalent to their own.

There are different things that could make loot and loot management better, but allowing guilds the flexibility and freedom of to set their own rules and practices makes good sense.

Beyond what I mentioned much earlier, a token system for raid achievements and successive kills beyond the first occurrence of the achievement could be put in place beyond what there is now to alleviate certain issues, but it would be a bit redundant in some cases. Those issues would be, as I mentioned before, primarily to lessen the impact of nonexistent rare items or unfavorable rates for particular archetypes. In practice, that quite likely would be the extent of it.

Do some guilds award dkp for groveling? Yes, now I can see that could be a problem with an automated system.

If groveling is what is important, than so be it. Let them award for groveling.

Obstinate might be something another guild values and thus rewards points, favor, faction, and ultimately rewards with items..

Too bad they don't award DKP for revolutionary ideas. Otherwise you'd have 10 toons decked out in HM raid gear, yes?

No

But some guilds award DKP for donations made to help guildmates, such as prime crafting ingredients for raid gear that can come from Ancient Draconic Phylactery or guaranteed from Ancient Prime Draconic Phylactery, both of which drop in ST: The Awakened and easily farmed since it can be reset every 90 minutes

I see no complaints how the system works for guilds and players currently. Besides, how would it benefit part-time players verses full-time or hardcore. Like many have stated, not everyone uses DKP and those that don't care for how their current guild handles drops, you can always find a guild that fits your play-style.

There really is no reason to take this away from the players and try to automate it the whole process. We are not mindless drones banging at a keyboard, we choose to 'play it our way' and that way is WITH the ability to see items distributed with a system that the guild deems to be in the best interest of its members.

Let me reiterate, you can always move on if your unhappy with your current guild.

As for "future games", just what would be the draw for players if they really had no choices to make?

Why this reminds me on my son at home..... Oh well, nevermind.
The point isnt that bad at all, only how it should be, can be changed. It would not be that bad if SoE would implent that feature, but some sites already have those if you want.
But the other point, it would not make anything better. It is not a revolution.....

it dawned on me, that this system would not prevent what i hate most:
raid-officers assigning loot.
because they could simply say in chat: anybody who bids on this item except xyz gets kicked from the guild

so maybe a token system with loot merchants is really the only way to prevent this in raids.
it would prevent errors though in adding or substracting dkp.

I also hate people in groups ninja looting items with NEED when it's not for their class.
the whole need/greed system could use some more optins, which a groupleader can set-up to his liking.
so people can declare another class for example, and the system knows it and prevents false ninja-looting.

or somebody says "I need this for my Alt" - and you already pressed greed, but of course have also an alt for that item.