Ah thanks...never been to Hall of Seeing, but we will be hitting it this coming week to see what we can find.... Syrius Message Edited by Conjourer on 10-22-2006 05:59 AM
Conj/Syrius, I did read it again m8, and my reasoning still stands as you agree yourself, perhaps it was ur group setup. I have tanked and killed Tarinax, venekor, vil, harla etc (duoed w/ guardian= memwipe) With that dps aa setup, tanked matron too. It is doable, but with mobs like matron you would need a good group setup, and ****** out gear. However, your survivability would be higher with the wis/sta tank setting. The degree of high or big that difference in survivability is, depeneds how well equiped you and your fellow raid force is in terms of equipment and masters etc and who you have in your group. If thats all uber then hell go for that setup and boost ur dps thru the roof. I jus personally respeced coz i couldnt resist the overpoweredness of % survivablity atm and that in EoF caps gunna be raised to 10k. However, as you say, your on a pvp server so things are a bit more complicated. Btw Shadowaxe drops of the named 3 legged Oblisk of Lost Souls type creature that spawns at the bottom of the stairs before the mist imbued named (right at entrance down corridor then left when u get to small room - er i think, memory crap = 2am). Think its ' A Shadowy Prescence'.... Planar axe drops of 3 princes in barren sky (guardian ilse). I guess in the end its all down to the difference between PVP and PVE servers... I havnt been on pvp and nor would i really bother, so when i talk about what i talk about its about the pve... and us in general... provided ofcourse zerkers havnt been uber messed around with for transferal to pvp. Vladnor The Berserk 70 Berserker Unity Splitpaw Message Edited by Thor Of Halla on 10-22-2006 05:57 PM Message Edited by Thor Of Halla on 10-22-2006 05:58 PM Message Edited by Thor Of Halla on 10-22-2006 05:59 PM
I have respeced several times and even tried the buckler since several main tanks said it was the way to go. My test results indicate a significantly higher dps output with my 2hander and the str line than the sta/wis line. Background: I'm lvl70, some raid gear, almost maxed str, most master attacks. 46 AAs. one hander is a velium blade - DR 72. 2hander has 106 dam rating (forget name). first test mob was a lvl50^^^ giant in SS desert. Speced, 4,4,8,8 in sta and wis. the one hander parsed 600-700 without using destruction,open wounds etc. dps mod was 47, haste 28%. Same setup, using all the "toys" I call them, destruction - open wounds - weapon aegis, dps 47%, haste 73%. parse 800-850. Both tests were repeated three times with results within 5 percent of each other. Second setup: str 4,4,8,. wis 4,4,8,8. int 4,1. without toys. dps 47%, haste 50%. parse 800-900. With toys. dps 47%. haste 95%. parse 1050-1100. the exact same tests were performed on epic trash in labs with slightly lower numbers but the same result. with the buckler, i barly broke 600 unless i used the toys. with the toys I could still hit 800ish. With the 2hander, I'm easily doing 850+ and can crank it to 1100 before I pull agro and die. (this happens a lot) If you have an uber 2hander, I see the str line being better than the sta line. If your one-hander is better, then sta might be the way. I don't tank the raids but I dont have any trouble getting agro or keeping it. Saturday's raid had me with my 2 hander in a grp with an inquis and a illusionist. 77 dps mod, 100 haste. I could pull agro auto attacking even if I went afk for the first half of the fight. (auto attack parsed at 900) I'm still experimenting with the intel line. With some haste gear I might ditch it (i want the gauntlets BAD). not sure what else to put 5 points into though. Doubt I'll need the hate from the str line. might put it in to get 25 sta or something more or less useless.
You sir, are spot on! Dont go with the INT line though, as a fellow 2hander wielding zerker, the INT line at your level will be useless for the haste since u should be capped with ease in any good group. The WIS line really works well with STR line for the DPS boost, which is a little harder to cap out.
Hehe he won't be capped for haste very easily in a few weeks. Although it remains to be seen how effective an extra 22%+ haste will really be in with the new caps.
if your comparing 2h to 1h+buckler line you have to keep it equal. any 2h with a rating of 95+(like runeblade, and the 50other 106 rating type 2hs) is already at the upper eschelon of dps for 2h. which is only really equal to a 1h of velium quality. Get any 1h made for dps, like the viculiade sword, shadow axe, good ol frostbringer, heck even sword of shielding, ascendant and you will greatly eclipse what 2h damage can do. I won't even mention how well a venekor sword/rapier parses. if you never plan to ever go down the int line, do yourself a favor try and find 5aa's somewhere, anywhere and pop them into int, i mean it's about the best singular investment in aa's anywhere, 5aa's for 22%(almost always active, depends if you remember to use it, and a bit restricted to sword but at least it's not something stupid like hammer/staff/rapier, almost all of us use either sword/axe anyway). i don't off tank as much as i did a month ago but i do anywhere from 1300-1700 with str/sta, offtanking in offstance. If i have to be on the ball and pick up when the mt dies i'll be in def stance and do 1k to 1.2k dps. i don't know what i do when i mt, i'm pretty sure i'm top 3, but i always attribute that to ds and procs, and that should never count for dps parses.
Of the aa lines that I have tried out, the agility line is definitely the funnest (for me). Extra aoe attacks, and a chance at doing aoe damage, all the time. May not be the "best" for end game, this that or the other, but when it comes to fun it is great
As it stands of course its easy to tank epics with a buckler, hell even a monk with higher than 70% avoidance still gets high 90% of the time, how often do you even block on raids? 1 out of 100 times mayb? As it stands now its all about the mit, question is: when the combat ramps come in is that 5% - 10% avoidance going to make a BIG difference against raid mob? If it comes out be be a soild 5% - 10% avoidance i don't think anyone will see too many bucklers vs named raid mobs anymore.
Hmm... With 1hander n buckler. i parsed on average 1,200 and that was in a crappy group, with just a templar and a ranger. With rambo on and right combination of other spells (juggernaut, master spells etc) i hit 1.7k dps in this group with my 1hander and buckler. Same for when i went down the STR, WIS and STA lines.... but parses were higher ofcourse. With both setups (sta+wis and Sta+str+wis) the 2hander always performed underpar.. and this is the Jade Inlaid Crescent axe... 53-358 min/max + 106 damage rating +20% haste effect on it (amulet of forsworn overides it @23%) afiak best 2hander in game (vraksakin is truely excellent for spike hits n dps. but not for sustained). With 2hander dps varies massively, i might see similar results when i use rambo.. i.e. parse 1,200 in that crappy group. The problem is that the average damage of the 2hander is about 1.9k the average damage of my 1hander is 900-1000 per hit. Now add 76% double attack and u can see that i can quiet easly match the damage output of 2hander with a decent 1hander. The velium axe, your right, is utter pants for this, and i expect you will see higher with a fabled 2hander. I get crit hits on the double attack for 1.9k, highest i think i did the other day of 2.1k!!! (mob was uber debuffed **** epic in labs) and this is the shadowaxe!!! like ranked 4th on highest dps axes afiak. Highest i have done with the 2hander is 4.3k and it usaually spikes at 2.9k for me. Annnndddd the weapon based melee procs off urself and ur group members fire of a feeecccckkkkk load more with double attack. If it is as you say a 5% difference that type of margin might be the error... for example (not saying u did or didnt do any of these btw), comparing parses with groups as opposed to single targets, insuring your dps/haste mod remains EXACTLY the same for each test parse, Insuring the mobs are debuffed equally (youll see ur damage fly up as soon as a brig hits dispatch on the mob!), insuring that when u parse u parsed on the same level of adds with the same individual mob types, and that the groups have the same numbers. A good test for ya i recon gonzo is to get a 1hander on par with ur 2hander... difficult to tell ya which if u cant remeber ur 2handers name. Get a group with a Dirge, Coercer, Inq, fury, conj at least, then the last slot can be assasin/SK/monk too for their respective poisonblade proc/Deathmarch!/haste buff. Conj is great coz of ember seed esp. on groups. Then get them to do all their dps stuff in coordination with yours. Do this with the buckler sta/wis setup and ur one... Do it with a 1hander and 2hander and tell me what ya see... Im 99% confident that the buckler line is absolulety unbeatable when it comes to dps... perhaps using 2hander for rambo then quickly swaping back to 1h and buckler may add to it... but its tricky and can loose u dps. I have a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaadd feeling SoE will nerf our buckler line... can feel it in my bones tho!!! So i may only be right until the realese of EoF!!!!!! <3 Buckler Dps Vladnor The Berserk 70 Berserker Unity Splitpaw
Wargurine wrote: umm, have you actually raided in T7? Because belly smash requires the mob to be knocked down to use it, and epics are immune to almost every knockdown ability, and even if the mob *does* get knocked down, half the time it doesn't do the animation so you would never know it anyways... Yes, I have raided T7, and thats what we use Ventrilo or TeamSpeak for my friend/enemy.
Laoch69 wrote: Of the aa lines that I have tried out, the agility line is definitely the funnest (for me). Extra aoe attacks, and a chance at doing aoe damage, all the time. May not be the "best" for end game, this that or the other, but when it comes to fun it is great I tried out the agility line, the AoE attack is pretty cool but it REALLY screws up raids, if your AEing 30% of the time that means that 30% of the time mezmerised mobs will be woken up, putting the mezzer through alot of trouble. :smileysad: Double attack down the STA line FTW!
I believe I mentioned my tests were done on exactly the same kind of mobs, exactly the same level and everything. Groups were the same and yes, I monitored the dps and haste numbers in insure they stayed the same. I also believe I stated it wasn't with the best one-hander. Just the best I have found. It's true the tests did not involve enough mobs but I feel the variance in the dps was enough to justify it. In my present setup, the two-hander is better. I'm swimming in two-handers right now and would love to see a nice one-hander drop. When that happens, I'll be more willing to try again. Personally, I just can't see myself using a whimpy buckler with such low stats compaired to something like the claymore shield with its proc. And what's the rambo reference? Message Edited by Gonzo550 on 10-25-2006 01:56 PM
Whimpy? If holding better aggro and killing faster is whimpy, I guess there's alot of "whimpy" tanks in this game. And all this time I thought it was cool to hold aggro, and to kill faster. Then compare to the claymore tower shield, that's real fair. On the other hand, the claymore shield isn't all that great. Has a chance to proc when you get hit with SPELL damage...and how often is that? Only other thing it has going for it, is mitigation which is found on atleast a few other tower shields AND whimpy bucklers! And when you're at mit cap (soon to be gone- I know) more mit doesn't mean much. Vulicide's shield > Claymore since it procs on melee damage (which means it actually will proc once in a while).
Mitigation from a shield? Protection and Mitigation are different things... Protection (which shields give) increases avoidance... tower shields are much better at this than bucklers.
He was specifically comparing the Qeynos Guard (tower shield) to bucklers. And if you had seen the qeynos guard, you whould know it has melee resists on it, (AKA mitigation) and so do some bucklers like the Archaic Buckler. Fightgame is one of the most informed zerkers on these boards and knows what he's talking about, I am sure he knows the difference between protection and mititgation lol :smileywink:
Is a 'shorthand' for forums purposes and macro purposes Rambo = Destruction + Open Wounds [and weapon ageis if ur tanking] Basically because you are like rambo with one machine gun killing an entire army of 'bad guys'. Jus imagine Slyvester Stalone witha machine gun goin 'ARRRRRHHHHHHGGG!!! DIIIEEEEEE' but replace it with a buckler and 1hander (lol nooot gunna say 2hander till maybe eof comes out!!) Juggernaut is not included mainly because, i reckon, its not used for tanking... If you tell your guild m8s what rambo is and u include juggernaut in it. If ur Maintank and macro rambo... they gunna think ur casting Juggernaut and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] at ya! + u can only fit two /usability in macro afiak Vladnor The Berserk 70 Berserker Unity Splitpaw
Just to rerail this thread, I respeced back to Buckler... Sta-4-5-8-8 , Wis - 4-4-8-8 I am much happier now...I still have Vilucidaes Tower shield in my inventory, and I have it on the hot bar so I can swap out quick if I need the extra mit (yes mit as the tower shield has 142 vs slashing, crushing, piercing which = 142 mitigation...) and the protection value brings my total avoidance up by about 4% over buckler with 8 in sta defense line. I like the fact that I can dps and tank with one weapon set, and I don't have to switch out if my role in group/raid changes. I like that I can dps on par with a 2hander and still have avoidance which is just 4% less than using a fabled tower shield. I also like that the buckler is sexah and makes me look so dam cool!!!! When EoF is released, I may switch again... When and if I get my hands on a uber 2hander I may switch again... But for the time being, I am quite satisfied with my choice, and I no longer regret the choices I have made... Syrius Silverblade 70/50 Berserker Venekor Server
I can see the buckler line getting a great big dirty nerf when they launch EoF. You only have to read the vitriolic complaints from the Crusaders forum's and post's to know that it's coming. I've respec'ed enough times now to be staring down the barrel of a 13pp respec so will be leaving my buckler line irrespective of the changes as is until everything's settled. Will then happily use my free respec and go from there. Ho
I have been a user of the sta/wis line using buckler (archaic buckler) and 1h (Qeynos Kilij) for DPS and 1h (Ascendant) when I MT. I have tanked every T7 instanced zone except for Chel'Drak without any problems of major aggro-loss OR low dps. The only complaint I will have is that "IF" the buckler line gets very noticeably nerfed that they would do something about the claymore line reclaim of final reward. I know that is asking a lot, but think about it. If I have been using the buckler line since it came out, and it was designed for an addition to a tank's arsenal and the AA line is completely useless without a buckler, then why would I pick the Qeynos Guard? I would not just ask for this for my class only, I would ask this of any nerf of a line or item(s). When they nerfed my Shield of the Flapping Wing from over 900 protection down to less than 400, I wasn't to happy. But I made due and moved on...but if they nerf the entire line, then I will be a little bit screwed, since I don't use or even HAVE any tower shields. I am not going to cry nerf, because I don't have all the information yet and will NOT have any of the official information until the launch of EoF OR I get invited to the beta...but since the invite hasn't come yet, I seriously doubt it will come. Until then, I leave it all the the SOE gods to make the right/wrong choices and will see what happens then.
LOL-- you must think SOE actually gives a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about what you want or what you think you deserve, in fact-- their interests are exactly opposite of yours--- keep you playing by denying you what you want for as long as possible in hopes that you will keep "trying" to get something better, like they care wether you "suck it up" and buy a tower shield after nerfing your AA's
