I am level 40 ~ My fix grp have a level 38 guardian Normally i will use the + atk grp buff Qxxxxxx xxxxx and dragon stance with 2 fisting weapon But the mob always on me when the mob leave 40% hp ~ I am thinking the problem is the tank too low level ? the tank lack of skill ? or i do too many dmg ? Another question is generally, 2hand weapon or 2 weapons make more dmg ? or it just like EQ1 when dun want to get too much aggro will use 2 hand weapon ~ thx
well somtimes your DPS is a lil higher then what the taunt can handle. happens to monks and scouts all the time. it doesnt nessarly mean the MT might be to low. also 2h weapons and dual wield weapons seems to equip pretty much the same DPS in the end. but there has be some chatter about if using a slower weapon might be better since when using combat arts, the delay timer on weapons isnt reset, and only interupted.
I run in to he same prolbem, there is really no reason why you can not be the main tank, the level difference makes you better at taking damamge. Altho there are times when I dont feel like being the MO as it takes a lot of work. I find the comments that guardains have better taunts interesting. I have not found much of a work around, tranquil blessing on your self has little effect and prevents from you using dragon stance. THe only other thing I do is cast buffs at the end of the fight or between pulls.
I ran into the exact same problem and I think you are right about doing more damage than a lower level guardian can deal with with just straight taunts. A group of 3 of us 28 monk, 26 guardian, and a 27 warden were killing giants for quests. The guardian would pull with bow then taunt once. Before I could even finish my first round of combat arts and before he could retaunt, the mob was on me. It wasn't a big deal since the giants couldn't hit me, but like you said, there really wasn't much of a point at all of him tanking. What i've found in situations like that is pulling, taunting, then throwing a group buff or two will generate a huge amount of initial agro that is very hard to pull off of. Might want to have your guardian friend try that. As far as two handed vs. dual wield... I haven't seen a lot of the upper level 2 handed weapons but as far as what i've seen you still get really good DPS with 2 handed weapons you just take a hit in stats. I'm not too sure how big of an impact combat arts have on actual weapon damage. This isn't proven but i think while you are 'casting' a combat art you don't swing with your wielded weapons. I believe the delay timer still counts down but you have to wait to finish your CA before swinging. I don't know if this is such a big deal since most of our CAs have fairly fast cast timers.
actually i can tank better but i am trying to use 100% atk mode so i use dragon stance say, when u use dragon stance ur ac will drop a lot and a lot so my hp drop like waterfall .. btw i didnt use the everburning frame already if i use it the mob will turn to me very fast .. sigh dunno wht soe thinking ... they increase our dps and should also increase and other tanking class's taunt ability
I'm a relative noob monk at 29, but surely you have a bit of a problem, you either need to be MT (Without DS) and Staggering Stance (Or whatever the replacement might be) or secondary tank with DS and try not to get agro... Our ability to hold agro is pretty good, but when you are tanking 2-3+ mobs the timer on the grp taunt is dire (35-30secs grp, and 8secs ish single iirc). Do our taunt capabilities get better later on?? It would seem the plate wearing tank variety has a better selection of taunts and he is better suited to tanking I guess. ideas?
kennethhon wrote: actually i can tank better but i am trying to use 100% atk mode so i use dragon stance say, when u use dragon stance ur ac will drop a lot and a lot so my hp drop like waterfall .. btw i didnt use the everburning frame already if i use it the mob will turn to me very fast .. sigh dunno wht soe thinking ... they increase our dps and should also increase and other tanking class's taunt ability Why would they have to increase a gaurdians taunt to keep aggro off us? We are a tank... we can take it
Ask the guardian what level his taunts are. My Warlock runs into this problem allot. I often bet blamed for over nuking only to find the tank is using AppII taunts. I've had tanks hold aggro while I blasted for all I could and not get aggro. I've double the DPS of most in the group and still never got aggro but thats always been with AdeptI and AdeptIII taunts. Anything less and you are going to run into problem.. And if you skills are AdeptI and AdeptIII it's going to be an even bigger problem for you. Atleast you can take a few shots if you get aggro. You know how much it sucks dieing just so you can find out that your tank is using AppIII skills or having your DPS cut in half for fear of getting aggro... Uggg it's like being out of power all the time. It sucks.. Hehe
Are you using any stunning attacks? They could be the reason why the tank is losing aggro, stuns generate a lot of hate, combined with your DPS you could pull aggro away with out taunting at all. As far as styles go, yes the weapon you are using does make a difference in the styles. I just bought a pristine tailored spiked cestus and a pritine tailored boiled fist wrap yesterday, first time I've been able to get a decent slashing/piercing combo since about level 16, so my piercing/slashing skills are terrible right now. I missed just about every style I did on a mob that was just barely grey to me, the styles that did hit did about 1/3 of the damage they normally do when I am using crushing weapons.
The tank's group buffs (such as call to arms and replacements for it) will generate hate upon them. Make sure they use them after combat has started rather than before. When tanking, I will usually taunt, group buff, self-defensive buff, and taunt again as my first four steps to make sure I have a ton of hate built up on a mob. If you slow your damage down just a tad in the beginning, it will make a difference as well. I was stealing aggro from a 35 guardian as a 30 monk last night, but after I slowed down my initial volley of moves, I found that she usually kept aggro.
there is one thing i've noticed, but haven't tested too much as it does take aggro from tank. I use 6 attack and dragon stance when i'm grouped and depending on which way i use the attacks i can get aggro very easily or not at all. (i forget the name of each attack, will edit their names in when i get home) kick attack, tortoise, talon, dragon, sparrow, boar. if i use them in the order listed i usually grab aggro by the time i get to talon. If i use the attack in reverse order I never draw aggro and can use them as fast as the previous one finishes. But it seems the faster the refresh rate on the attack the more aggro it generates. Choo 34 Gnome Monk
Not sure how EQ2 handles attacks with DOT damage, but in a previous not mentioned by name for the sake of close minded people SOE game, attacks that had an associated DOT component used to generate a lot of hate. I usually start off with Swooping Dragon to maximize the DOT damage, but in thinking about it, it's a high damaging kick with a DOT component. Chances are it's my single most hate producing combat art that i use (other than taunt of course ). A lot could also be do to the fact that Swooping Dragon + Rapid Swings + Bruising Strike = 500+ hp damage in only a few seconds generates a lot of hate pretty dang fast.
I have arranged my main attack combat arts, the ones that are pretty much pure damage attacks, on my button bar in a specific order so as to reduce my hate generation when I am not the main tank. Bascally I take all of the medium and high damage attacks and alternate between them. That way I never hit the mob with 2 high damage attacks in a row. I still use all my combat arts, but I don't ever spike my damage output at the beginning of the fight and that reduces the hate I generate. All of my stun, knockdown, and interrupt type of attacks are arranged seperate from the damage dealing ones. That way I can use those against casters when the need arises. It also helps that I don't include them in normal fighting vs. mobs who aren't casters unless i simply have to. They don't do a lot of damage anyway, so it gives my normal melee hits some time to fire when my hard hitting attacks are recharging.
btw i dun like to tank since i am sure that if i work on dps that is more useful compare to i go to tank i believe that have some sequence to use the combat stype wont aggro much true, the grp buff, stun, dot also add a lot of aggro i think use low to high dmg skill that will help to prevent the mob face to me ^^ but cannot fully optimize the timmer of those high dmg skill e.g. if i use the winter talon first i can do 1 more time in the battle
As a guardian, I will be the first to admit most guards have low level taunts and don't use them enough. We have to do very low dps and taunt like mad to hold good dpsers (which monks can be)
Edit: oops. I don't think you HAVE to do very low dps. I think it depends on the fight. And guardians are certainly capable of cranking out some MAJOR DPS if they don't put on tank stances and concentrate on killing. Message Edited by RadricTycho on 02-02-2005 10:44 AM
The short and to the point answer is: The Guardian is too low. The long answer is: Level is everything when it comes to gaining and holding aggro. A 38 Guardian is gonna have hell keeping aggro from a level 40 any melee class, maybe even a pally Most don't seem to understand that Guardian taunts aren't all they're cracked up to be. IMO they are broken. But at 38 we can do really well... if you're asking us to hold aggro off someone, especially a monk or a zerker, that is 2 levels higher.. forget it.
Aye. Deafen is a lot better, but still isn't perfect. Only real problem anymore is zerkes when their procs decide to all go off.
