Dirge Questions from a newbie?

Discussion in 'Dirge' started by ARCHIVED-Colder, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. ARCHIVED-Colder Guest

    Im super confused about the bard class in general? We are dual wielding rogue types? Im confused about some of the DPS discussions I've seen when I thought this class was a pure buff/debuff support class? Are we melee? Or do we stand back? etc....

    Thanks! :)
  2. ARCHIVED-Hilt Guest

    Colder wrote:
    Dirges are melee. Yes, dirges are also a buff class and bring a lot of benefits to fighter/scout groups, as well as added utility to everyone overall. Dirges can fight at ranged but if you spec into AGI you can have an innate poison line which directly contributes to melee DPS.
    Generally i find the long sword/rapier combo works best for me, but your mileage may vary...
  3. ARCHIVED-Raahl Guest

    Also, the majority of our damage comes from auto attacks, especially at higher levels. So don't delay them.
  4. ARCHIVED-chardz Guest

    Raahl wrote:
    Really? on the public channel on my server there was some short discussion about which weapons a scout is supposed to use and the argument for long delay weapons was to get spells out and not loose too much auto attack dps.
    What's ur take on that?
  5. ARCHIVED-Raahl Guest

    chardz wrote:
    Right now there seems to be a number of high DPS scouts going to the 6s delay weapons. Sure this allows you to do more CA's/Spells out, but I believe the biggest benefit is that the 6s weapons hit for bigger auto attack damage numbers.
    If a scout has a high haste stat a 6s weapon is probably very reasonable. So bigger auto attack damage per swing with a small increase in delay seems to be the way to go. But only if you have the haste to make the 6s weapons worth it.
    During raids, 55-65% of my damage is from auto attack.
    I did a solo test using 4s and 6s dual wield. On an epic training dummy I spent ~5 minutes wacking on it, only auto attack and hitting CoB when it came up. The 4s weapons had more DPS than the 6s weapons. Granted this was skewed in favor of the 4s weapons because they were a higher quality weapon than the 6s ones.
    BTW - Yes really, you want to minimize delaying your auto attack. You want it to fire off when it's ready, not waiting for a CA to finish.
  6. ARCHIVED-chardz Guest

    i have to renew the op's original question....my dirge is 70 now, so he is nearing that time when grouping/raids begin and once again, the confusion hits me like a brick. Solo i already think that dirge is not a really impressive class....for me personally (but tbh my dirge is still wearing the lvl 52 mc armor, 2x lvl 42 mc dirk, and my spells/ca's...adept at best).
    But in group....its really confusing...what do i do? do i throw out all my debuffs everytime the tank masses up mobs? cos by the time my debuffs are out the mobs are dead. So its seems to be a choice between debuffs , for which u will never see ur contribution or dps, which is really pathetic
    What is the way to go and/or what am i doing wrong?
  7. ARCHIVED-Raahl Guest

    • On solo mobs, I rarely debuff.
    • On heroic nameds, I debuff if solo'ing and if in group I debuff depending on how much DPS the group puts out.
    • On trash raid mobs, I debuff depending on the mob and DPS output of the raid.
    • On named raid mobs, I always debuff.
    • It really depends on how fast the mobs are dying. If they die fast, don't worry about debuffing.
    Prior to 80-85 solo'ing was a chore. The biggest things that help make solo'ing easier, at least for me, were AA and gear.
    Focus on anything that increases your DPS. Multi-Attack and Crit Chance are your friends. Also you are getting close to the point that you really want to focus on mastering CA's/Spells. But be sure to start with your highest level abilities as the lower level ones will be replaced soon.
    Dual Wield on all mobs. If you come against a particularly tough mob while solo'ing, pull out the buckler.
    At level 70, I'm unsure if there are many gear items that increase Multi Attack or other stats.
    There's a good Dirge guide over at eq2 flames. It has AA spec information and gear choices. Even though it's meant for higher level characters it's a good place to start. http://www.eq2flames.com/dirges/692...rge-thread.html
  8. ARCHIVED-Raahl Guest

    Just to clarify on the minimizing delaying your auto attack.
    I am not talking about weapon delay. I'm talking about never delaying your auto attack from going off. Do not spam your CA's/Spells one after the other.
    Typically with my 4s delay weapons I can get 2 CA's/Spells off safely before the Auto attack fires off. For the long casting CA's/Spells I only get one off.
    IMO, if you are close to the auto attack going off and are not sure if a CA will cast quickly, wait for auto attack to fire then cast the next CA.
    BTW you do have the auto attack bar on your UI, right? This shows your progress towards your next auto attack. Never go off the character animation as it often lags behind the actual attack.
  9. ARCHIVED-chardz Guest

    extremely helpfull, thank u very much
  10. ARCHIVED-Raahl Guest

    Anytime. While I am no expert, I have a few gems to share. There are some really excellent Dirges out there that seem more super human in what they can do.
  11. ARCHIVED-yzyh Guest

    1) 4sec vs 6sec weapon isn't as easy to figure out for dirge then it is for some class and the reason is the various proc that are % hit based rather then PPM. That and many 6sec raid DoV weapon are messed up. Sure 6sec weapon make it easier to time out your CAs but less swing = less proc on some dirge buff.
    2) If you have problem going toe to toe while soloing just bow kite.
  12. ARCHIVED-chardz Guest

    Im still not done asking, lol, so now i got a flamberge and a dagger for my dirge. Statwise they only have agi that is good for me, so that is one aspect im not too sure of. Second aspect is that they have two different delays, one has 4 sec and one 5 sec. And apparantly if u dual wield there is a heavy attack speed penalty....dual wielding turned the 4sec delay into a 5.3sec delay and the 5sec into a 6.7 delay.
    Good thing is u have time to get off 3-4 ca's (after which u have at least a 10 sec cd on all, so by next auto attack u might have nothing extra anymore)....on the other hand im confused as to how the autoattack works....sometimes auto attack waits for the second weapon to go off, sometimes it doesnt. What's the story there?
    And....maybe i just really really suck in playing a dirge (and i have to admit, using my auto attack more has increased my dps)...but im ashamed to admit....3 blue mobs against me and im at 30%hp. Or i need some serious training.
    Also, a side question...does a dirge target the tanks target? Or maybe that doesnt really matter in lvl 75 ish dungeons? (since the chances are high it will be tanked by some lvl 90)
  13. ARCHIVED-Raahl Guest

    chardz wrote:
    Yes dual wielding takes a hit, think it's 30% more.
    Dual wielding weapons that are at different delay is screwy, maybe even buggy. Always wield two of the same delay weapons. This will make life much easier for you.
    Leveling up was difficult at times. And yes you'll have times you get low on health during a fight. Especially at levels under 80.
    When in single group I target through the tank. If you don't you may end up with aggro from the mob. When in raid we have a designated Main Assist (MA). The MA is who we target through.
  14. ARCHIVED-gatrm Guest

    Chardz, make certain that you are using a haste item, you will see a dps improvement with it. Like Raahl said, make certain that you are dual wielding the same delay weapons, you might want to look at the mastercrafted weapons that give str/sta/agi since you will get benefit from both the sta and agi.
    If you have a level 90 tank mentoring down, it doesn't really matter what you target because you are unlikely to pull aggro, however it is good to get used to learning how to efficiently target as a scout. It will hurt your dps if you simply target through the tank. You want to make yourself a macro that you hit once the tank changes targets- you might need to get used to how your tank is tanking/changing targets, and it takes some practice. If you start climbing too high on the aggro meter, you can always change targets. The macro will say /assist tankname
    This macro will allow you to get the tank's target as your primary target, allowing you to more easily ensure that you are behind the mob and in melee range of the mob- it's a lot easier to tell which mob you are attacking if you have it directly targeted.
    For a poorly geared/low AA'd dirge, RoK content is rough. If you are taking on three non-linked mobs at once and surviving, you aren't doing badly. Once you get your epic, and maximize your multiattack, you will find that things die easy, but until then, it may be a bit of a challenge.
  15. ARCHIVED-Raahl Guest

    gatrm wrote:
    Great suggestion! See even old dogs learn something new.
    Now I just need to find an open slot in my hotbars.
  16. ARCHIVED-Sikbik Guest

    stack multiattack and you will be fine. Im at 326MA and im doing 60-70k on avg. I know some dirges that avg double me.
  17. ARCHIVED-fogcat Guest

    The advice on /assist tankname is spot on. I finally got my raid to get dirges away from an MA. It isn't just to puff up our DPS either. As dirges we should be debuffing on pull. If you go through an MA, you are waiting too long to get the debuffs up for the tank as the mob gets set. The only caveat is when there is a fight specific to adds or assisting. You need to be aware of your targets. On raid trash it doesn't really matter as long as you aren't pulling hate, but on those extra special fights, I generally /assist tank on pull, debuff, switch target to /assist mainassistname.
  18. ARCHIVED-Lifender Guest

    I recently started leveling a dirge, level 76 at the moment. Due to the fact that I was getting occasional power leveling from my 90 paladin brother I would usually end up having very outdated gear. I have found that even making sure you have all at level gear combined with at least adept spell levels help a ton. I got fed up with not being able to mow through white and blue encounters and decided to invest some plat into gear/spell tomes. Now I can mow through mobs and when grinding rarely get below green health. I have to say, maximizing autoattack especially multi attack chance is of critical importance. When I melee (although I have decent weapons for my level) I can nearly one shot white/blue mobs with a multi attack that crits, especially with my bow. All I have to say is that properly geared, the dirge is insanely fun to play and has so many great abilities I just love it so don't give up for sure! Auto attack is the key, followed by good AA placement and spending time to get good gear.
    Also in regards to debuffs I really don't find them applicable at this level even on heroic encounters, the dps is usually just too fast. I help more attacking for 5 seconds that rebuffing for that long. On named heroics I always debuff though.
    Harbinger Ritmo, Faithful of Innoruuk, Antonia Bayle 76