[p]lets clear the air here the only plate tanks that can out DPS a dirge is a Zerk or a Guard using Buckler AA's[/p][p]Pali once in a blue moon will they be above me on parse[/p][p]Sk we did lycuem for our third raid last nite and maybe once did he do better than me[/p][p]lets stop all nonsense about SK Dps they have 1 spell maybe 2 and if you are paying attention and doing things correctly they have zero chance of out dps'ing a dirge[/p][p] [/p]
[p]It does depend in the setting, though, doesn't it? Not everything in-game is high-end raiding. I beat my guild's paladins and SKs in named raid battles, surely. Last night in Unrest, though, I was busy debuffing and doing damage-attenuation, we had a mezzer so I couldn't use Banshee or Jarol's, and I had to rez some of the time, so not only did the paladin, as tank out-parse me, but so did the templar a couple battles. That was OK, we had a wizard and necromancer, dps wasn't my job in that group. [/p][p]Talk about humiliation, though. [/p][p]Whysprr [/p]
[p][EVERY well played tank with the right AA setup will out DPS a dirge, PERIOD. . . . . .][/p][p] [/p][p] [/p][p] [/p][p]Wrong!!!!![/p][p]its called knowing your class and how to play it,will you out dps them all the time no but you should a majority if not look at what you are doing your setup and change things[/p]
Okey, I "only" manage to get a high of close to 1.3k DPS on single targets. Please, tell me your secret of doing 1.3k+ easy like most good SKs and some pallies seem to get, with your weapons and gear, cause obviously I'm missing something.
Thanks for pointing the obvioous I have these items are in my inventory. What I asked had nothing to do with gear. Just cuz I had it on doesn't mean I raid with it. I have like 4 sets of gear I swap for different reasons which are my own. Sometimes I even wear a robe and shield. THE HORROR!!!!.
"Pushing" 800 DPS in MT group is nothing special and the 1st thing why you parse that low "pushing" it would be your gear setup. I'm sooooo sorry I gave you a few pointers on gear, I promise I won't ever advise what gear you might want to get ever again! PROMISE!
[p]Hmm, I parse 600 on MT group, 700 maybe 800 on DPS group. With my much less geared SK (and 40 less AAs) I can blow my Dirge away. Only master I'm missing with my Dirge is Jael's AOE nuke, which might parse for something good now but certainly wasn't key before GU#32.[/p][p]I was running Dirk of Negativity and Vyem's Fang, now I'm gonna give 1H a try with Shadow Axe. Maybe I should be running self buff and refuse to rez and cast debuffs to see if I can get 50 points more on DPS.[/p]
Kallarn@Splitpaw wrote: [p] QFE.[/p][p] My raid group parses avg 15k zone wide.[/p][p]Our dirges (I have a dirge also besides my coercer) parse about 500 - 600 dps which competes with my coercer.[/p][p]Our Guardian who is MT and dirge is in that group, parses anywhere from 700 - 900 dps.[/p][p]Our zerker who is OT and has coercer buffs parses 800 - 1000 dps.[/p][p]Pallys parse in the 400 - 700 range, but I have raided with pallys who consistently parse around 1k.[/p][p]Don't have any SK's[/p][p]Also as many have said If you are a dirge, troubador, coercer or illusionist (highest parsing of this group) you are there for support not dps. If you can DPS well while providing the support role, so much the better but support is first.[/p]
[p] [/p][p] [/p][p]Me personally, I have macros setup for my people that constantly pull agro and die (I.E. Wizard)...And yes, I debuff, Rez, spot heal, and still parse over 800 and 1k+ on clean nameds. If you are having to Rez that much, then yes it will negatively impact your DPS output. [/p][p] Also, I agree that a Dirge is a utility class. So are Coercer, Illusionist, and troubs a like. But if you can maintain your jobs and still parse well, why not? If you have the mentality that "Oh, I just a dirge I'll never parse over 500" then you NEVER WILL PARSE OVER 500...But to answer the OP...Although Dirges can parse above the normal 500 dps, a spec'd and geared tank WILL outparse a Dirge. [/p][p]If you are a utility, and can offer another 1k really makes encounters like Pumpkin Headed Horseman just that much easier...[/p][p] [/p][p]Then again, if you parse 400-500 PHH would be a tad more difficult. [/p][p] [/p][p]Just can't always think you can't, because with the right mentality, reorganizing HBs, gear, masters... Dirges CAN parse well. [/p][p]One more thought. If you start out parsing some of your DPS in raids, maybe they will kick it into gear. No one wants to be beat by Bard DPS.[/p]
Ainwen@Butcherblock wrote: [p]On the whole, I agree with Darkv, but he pulled one of my strings so I just have to rant. [/p][p]The bit quoted above is simply false. You just can't believe pop-psych, sorry, if it's conventional pop-psych wisdom it's probably wrong. [/p][p]I was one of those dirges who figured I was gonna parse 350 forever. I consider myself competent and knowledgeable; I'm pretty sure that aside from some sloppiness around the edges, and absent gear that I don't play enough or in the right setting to get, I'm doing about what I can do. Usually was in MT group, and as I've said repeatedly we're not a hyperoptimized Stosstruppen guild. [/p][p]So, I got moved to a melee dps group, probably got a different set of buffs, certainly ran a different set myself, and whee, 700-850. [/p][p]But the point is, I figured I'd never parse over 500 -- and then I did. Sometimes, and I know this'll come as a surprise to those who live by self-help books, it's the real world instead of self-image that matters. [/p][p]Go figure. [/p][p]And nothing personal, Dark, I seen my chance and I taken it. [/p][p]Whysp[/p]
[p]Hah! To counter that, I put forward the quote, "Crazy is doing something over and over again and expecting a different result the last time you do it." You quote a change in environment as the reason that the real world intruded... but it didn't change what you were doing did it?[/p][p] [/p][p]If you don't try to optimize, if you don't examine what you do and how you do it, you WON'T get better, except the diminishing returns granted by rote-experience. I happen to know, for a relative fact (without, you know, sitting AT your keyboard) that you think and apply and learn and examine what you are doing. You may have "resigned" yourself to 350 DPS, but somehow I doubt you were standing still either. Pop psych sucks, but so do blanket dismissals of "common sense"... there's usually something involved, its just portrayed overly simplistically. =) [/p]
To those who claim that we offer other things and as such have to suffer a penalty to our dps: A fully defensive GUARDIAN (a Berserker does even more) acting as MT does more damage than a Dirge. Now tell me which is more important to a raid: the MT or some Dirge? You always have to put things in relation to other classes. Sure we offer some nice things but others offer more vital things a raid can't live without and they still get more DPS than we do.
[p] [/p][p] [/p][p]Ok, how about this...Up and coming Dirges. 300-500 is ok...But you have the ability to parse 800+ [/p][p] [/p][p]Yes gear helps, masters help, group setups help...But, its not impossible. So prove your guild wrong and parse over the norm.[/p][p] Btw, if any of the tanks in my guild parse lower then me I give them [I cannot control my vocabulary] or they are AFK. Sorry, but you just shouldn't be lower then your Bards. Especially if they are setting a mark of just 800...[/p][p]And Whysp, I stopped taking your comments personally. Because you are just so mean! [/p]
[p]I bring more DPS to a group than any fighter. I am not necessarily the person that does that DPS, but I bring it.[/p][p]A couple of things to consider:[/p][p]1. Tanks always have artificially high DPS due to the fact they pull the mobs and don't need to go easy on the agro. I tank regularly and my DPS is much higher when doing so than when being a DPS. Even without Death's Barrier on there is still a difference. I clock 150 points higher DPS tanking than not.[/p][p]2. Tanks tend to have all the good buffs on them.[/p][p]3. How much of your time is spent debuffing, or casting CoB or OoS?[/p][p]Even taking all this into account however, I still believe that fighters do too much damage. A warrior with Buckler Reversal, any brawler, or an SK against groups can out DPS us easily enough if we debuff or use CoB. Even when we are being DPS ****** and don't help out others, brawlers will often beat our DPS.[/p][p] P.S. I don't think we should beat all the fighters in DPS. Last I looked at the levels of expected damage SOE was shooting for, Brawler, Enchanters and Bards should be doing similar damage to each other. So we should beat other tanks and equal Brawlers (which we don't). SOE may think that since we beat Brawlers in AE fights that that makes us equal <shrug>.[/p]
