Dirge and Bard changes on the Test Server for GU 32

Discussion in 'Dirge' started by ARCHIVED-xOnaton1, Feb 12, 2007.

  1. ARCHIVED-Priestbane Guest

    [p]I dunno who would have said we did more auto attack damage than rogues or predators... that has not ever been true. Like, ever.[/p][p] [/p][p]Someone may have said that a larger *percentage* of our total output is autoattack based, but that's because we don't have arts with damage ranges that move into the tens of thousands.[/p][p] [/p][p]Agreed about the changes to KoS AAs. While others may have been expecting a miracle to occur, until it's actually tested, I'm not ready to throw this out a a paltry change. Frankly, *because* autoattack is such a large percentage of our damage (pve, not so much pvp), it has the potential to be a rather large increase. More than say, making a "big" change by adding some amount to how hard Luda's hits. It's supposition on my part too, until we get more information, more numbers.[/p][p]I hope they fix the runspeed. I never would have advocated a nerf to any class (though they do happen, and such is life), but fact is, even with the nerf to Mystics, they run faster than we do till level 41, because they can get all their points in before they even get SoW. With our points (more of them!) spent, we can't match that until we hit level 41 Selo's. And we're still *marginally* better than Wardens and Rangers (1%!), and again, only after we get to level 55! Until then, they are faster, with less points spent in AAs to get there.[/p][p] Quote! (Until I figger it out)[/p][p]xOnatonx wrote:[/p][p]Crypt's Quiet - Increased triggered damage. Proc % changed from 10% to 12%-- still a very situational buff that won't be used much.[/p][p] (unQuote!)[/p][p]it's 12% on live. The difference is in the amount of damage it does, not the trigger percentage. *ALL* our buffs are situational. Well, except maybe Riana's. /nod[/p][p] [/p]
  2. ARCHIVED-naMessiah Guest

    Live to the left, test on the right. INT 25 on both so dmg is wrong. [IMG] [IMG] [IMG] [IMG]
  3. ARCHIVED-Whysprr_Wyrd Guest

    [p]Looks as though they increased the Tomb's damage by roughly 35-40%. I suppose this makes a weird sort of sense; it was weak-to-balanced before removing off-hand weapon procs, so you'd think it should be doubled -- but of course only scouts and brawler-types usually dual-wield, so it was rebalanced as a group buff to take into account the proportion of dual-wielding versus single-wielding classes. [/p][p]~Wanders off trying to figure out whether the math works, looking hopefully for Sorschae to ride up, banners flying, to the rescue, and wishing Kurai were around~[/p][p]-Whysp[/p]
  4. ARCHIVED-Noirceur Guest

    Not sure Tomb's Calm will really be that useless. Being a raiding MT group dirge I don't use that buff on raids but for grouping the reasoning is different. And people seem to forget about AA's. I have "Luck of the Dirge" and spent 5 points to enhance tombs (I put 5 points each in power regen, CoB, tombs and actually Shroud in the Luck AA line. The dis buff resist just isn't worth it, my group on raids can easily get to 8k dis resists, and I don't need group safefall either) Tomb's sits at 20% trigger chance. Not all too bad, huh? Most group content is just too easy to require us to use all those defensive buffs. Now Nizara or Castle Mistmoore, that's another story. But for most group instances it's just not necessary. Unless the healer is eating or watching tv while playing I usually drop both PoS and the parry buff. Most tanks have pretty good gear these days. At least good for group content (Fabled stuff is easy to get even from pickup raids in Labs.). And I don't use Hyran's either cause most heroic content dies so fast even a mage survives if she pulls agro. So I got a group with a tank and maybe even 2 healers... I can focus on buffing dps. That leaves me with the usual AA stuff (DKTM, Luck) and of course 5 buffs: self buff (yeah, in group situations i might be selfish and my dps isn't that bad), Harls (cause 104 str make a difference), Riana's and oh, lookie: 2 conc slots left. So with yellow content and many scouts in the group I'd actually sing Dissonant Boon. And the last concentration slot? Well, why not tomb's? According to the parse Tomb's is responsible for about 4-5% of my dps in a normal group if I don't get any haste buff. With the changes to Tomb's dmg on test I'd say it does 6-7% now. That's nice, isn't it? And what about the brigand or the swashy in your group? Or the monk or the bruiser? They hit a lot more and a lot faster than us dirges as they don't have spells to cast and usually get all the nice haste buffs. And all of a sudden Tomb's with 20% trigger chance and 30-40% more dmg doesn't sound that useless. Hugs, Noir
  5. ARCHIVED-JadzeaDax Guest

    [p]Hehe..... nevermind.....[/p]
  6. ARCHIVED-Anvilhead Guest

    [p]Did they nerf the in-combat runspeed component of Harbinger's Sonnet?[/p][p] I was under the impresssion that they improved it. As I recall it was something such as 0.6% per rank of in-combat and 1.5% out of combat runspeed. Now it appears to be a flat 1% to both. [/p][p]Or have I misread something?[/p]
  7. ARCHIVED-Priestbane Guest

    [p]Tora,[/p][p]The descripption still says it increases in-combat runspeed. I don't *think* we've lost it, it just reads at a combined value. I haven't tested it to make sure yet, but the description *says* we get it. If you find out on test that we've lost that, then by all means mention it, but I don't think we've lost it (and in fact might have a minor increase to it...)[/p]
  8. ARCHIVED-JadzeaDax Guest

    Hehe, I thought I read last night that they had removed the in-combat runspeed. I just went back in re-read the original post. What can I say, I are n00b. :p
  9. ARCHIVED-Lockeye Guest

    It's 1% to out of combat speed, and 1.5% to in-combat speed. The 1.5% in-combat speed isn't showing in the examine information on test, which will be fixed soon.
  10. ARCHIVED-Caliga Guest

    Mystics are getting nerfed down to 40% in the same update and wardens were never at 50% (defilers and furies don't even have a sow AA line) so at GU32 bards will be the fastest foot runners in game. Grats!
  11. ARCHIVED-Priestbane Guest

    Caliga wrote:
    Well, I don't think any of us asked or wanted a Mystic nerf. And while we are ultimately the fastest sustained foot runners in the game now (by a whopping 1%), in order to get there, we are slower than Mystics and Rangers and Wardens for most of the game (up to level 55!), and also have to spend 8 AA points to get there, as opposed to 5. Forgive me for not jumping for wondrous joy on that front. =(
    Lockeye just gave us some fantastic news for in-combat runspeed though, THAT got doubled. We'll end up with a 12% boost in combat, at 8 points spent.
  12. ARCHIVED-Martrae Guest

    Lockeye wrote:
    So it IS a nerf then. Great....just great.
  13. ARCHIVED-Priestbane Guest

    [p] LOL, I forgot to read the implied "yes, it really is now 1% per point" message there. /sigh I got distracted in the "see, I was right we aren't losing in-combat runspeed, and look, it got DOUBLED" message.[/p][p] [/p][p]I dinnae like it cap'n. =([/p]
  14. ARCHIVED-Priestbane Guest

    [p]=)[/p][p]With Luck of the Dirge, and the damage increase on the proc, Tomb's will contribute more than it ever did even before the dualwield proc fix. The dual wield proc fix came in GU16, only three updates after GU13, where tomb's was bumped from an (broken for a large part of it's life) 8% proc rate to a 12% proc rate. That was a three month period where Tomb's was at an all-time high for output, but only for people who dual wielded (that "only" is why the dual wield proc fix went in). Since EoF was released and the Luck line bumped our proc rate to 17% (42.5% more frequency), and then the Luck line bumped it again (wow!) to 20% adjusted (25% of 12% base is 3%, tack that on to 17%...) and we have a tomb's buff that procs way more than it *ever* did before. After EoF was released, the dual wield proc fix was no longer the "limiting factor" on the output of tomb's.[/p][p]Even before the bump in GU32, Tomb's is the best it's ever been in terms of random contribution to damage. 20% proc rate is nothing to sneer at. If you use Tomb's (and you should on occasion), then it's gonna be a nice bump. It may even actually begin to compete with (unadjusted) Riana's for contribution to total output... which it should.[/p][p] [/p][p]EDIT: Oh, and one more thing! This does increase our DPS, but it does it in a BARD way. It doesn't just impact us, it impacts our whole group. While a personal DPS bump is nice (and we get one!), this is also nice. [/p]
  15. ARCHIVED-Priestbane Guest

    Priestbane wrote:
    So on further review, it looks like this requires a... err... review.
    Before: Cap speed with Selo's (34%) and Harbinger's Sonnet (+12%); max un-otherwise-adjusted speed: +46%. Add Mystic in, and maximum jumps up by a bunch: We can potentially get the group to 62% un-adjusted. Add jboots, and this probably starts to get into the realm of unacceptable speed adjustments. Maybe. Wardens and Rangers can get to +45% runspeed with 5 AAs very early on. Mystics can achieve +50%.
    After: The new Sonnet only affects our own runbuff, so no synergistic run speed with SoW. Nerf, but low incidence.
    After: Bards are now slower than Wardens and rangers not from 13 (or whatever) to 41, they are now slower until 55. And only if they cap their AAs, for 8 points spent. Slight nerf. Not so slight if you are a dirge under level 55 and suddenly are running *slower* than before GU32.
    After: Bards gain twice as much in-combat movement speed with max points spent putting it to +12%.
    After: Bards at 70 are going no slower or faster than they were before the change in this LU, for most only because DKTM suddenly only costs 2 points, but to keep it, they gotta sink their points SOMEWHERE in the Wisdom line. Allegro becomes a wasteland (for some of us) because I'd take the extra resists from sinking points more into Wisdom and the darn bowshot, than I would try for a 0.05 second increase to my 10 second cast time. =p

    Overall, this change is a nerf for bards under level 55 (with slight mollification in the form of more in-combat runspeed? Maybe), and no difference-to-slight upgrade for bards at 70, leaving the core issue intact... we're still not fastest. Don't give me 1% as fastest, because we gotta max out points (8 of them!) to get even that.
  16. ARCHIVED-Lornick Guest

    [p] The 1.5% to in-combat runspeed is nice. And overall, I would say that Harbinger's Sonnet will be better overall post GU 32. The way it is in game now is 6% runspeed bonus in combat and 12% runspeed bonus out of combat with 8 ranks in the skill. Post GU 32 with what you just said will mean 12% runspeed bonus in combat and 8% runspeed bonus out of combat.[/p][p]My issue is that my out of combat runspeed will be *exactly* the same as it is now. Why mess around with Harbinger's Sonnet and add a new version of Selo's at all if the end result is the same? I guess it's cool for the bards that didn't go down the wisdom line in the first place. They gained 4% runspeed.[/p][p]Here's the thing that bothers me about this whole deal. I think it's fantastic the changes you guys are making to the KoS AA tree so that the final abilities only cost 2 AA (as opposed to 8... yuck) with the stipulation that we'll need to spend 22 AA pts in the same tree before purchasing it. Really, great change and much needed. But if you look at the bards spending points on the wisdom line before and after GU32 I think it's pretty obvious where most bards will put those extra 6AA pts in the wisdom tree. 4 are almost guaranteed to go into Harbinger's Sonnet. The other 2 pts I guess will depend on bard. Extra wisdom, a lil extra damage/deaggro to Harmonizing shot or a minor increase to casting speeds from Allegro are all about equally unimpressive to me. But the net effect is that all the bards who were after DKtM ability will max out their Harbingers despite the out of combat runspeed nerf. Those bards will still gain an extra 2% over what they have in game now. (I think I can say pretty definatively that most bards didn't max out Harbingers prior to GU32) But the bards that were really willing to sacrifice more practical uses for their AA pts and capped out their Harbinger's Sonnet ability prior to GU32 will be no better off. See what I'm trying to say here? The guys or girls that really want and are willing to sacrifice for runspeed, the ones that really want to be the fastest out there, the ones that this really affects the most are gaining nothing. Well... that's not entirely true... I guess we get to put those 4 AA pts into something more practical now...[/p]
  17. ARCHIVED-Priestbane Guest

    Pfft, in the wisdom line, I'm taking my 4 OUT of Allegro, so I have even more to spend on wisdom/bow attack. Good call on the bards that didn't go into wisdom at all, I didn't even post that particular ramification (the number of bards that didn't go wisdom is slightly higher than the number of bards that took coin toss).
  18. ARCHIVED-Lornick Guest

    [p] Hahah, good point. If they make it so the requirement is 22 AA pts into wisdom line instead of 4 pts into Allegro to unlock DKtM then we don't even have to bother putting points into Allegro. Nice catch. I would still put two point into allegro cause that does decrease CA casting time by a fraction of a second... plus I like to feel like I have more maintained buffs =p Hell, since we get a forced respec for the KoS AA tree and I have a free AA respec right now I'll do a little experiment.[/p][p]Combat Art cast time unmodified = .5s Luda's Nefarious Wail = 1s Banshee = 2s[/p][p]Rank 1 Allegro - CA = .5s, Luda's = .99s, Banshee = 1.98s Rank 2 Allegro - CA = .49s, Luda's = .98s, Banshee = 1.96s Rank 3 Allegro - CA = .49s, Luda's = .97s, Banshee = 1.95s Rank 4 Allegro - CA = .48s, Luda's = .97s, Banshee = 1.93s Rank 5 Allegro - CA = .48s, Luda's = .96s, Banshee = 1.91s Rank 6 Allegro - CA = .47s, Luda's = .95s, Banshee = 1.9s Rank 7 Allegro - CA = .47s, Luda's = .94s, Banshee = 1.88s Rank 8 Allegro - CA = .47s, Luda's = .93s, Banshee = 1.87s[/p][p]There you have it. The actual modifiers for Allegro on our CA/spells. What I would like to see done with allegro is to have it drop as a group buff and just make it alot better solo buff. I think that's the main reason it's so weak is since it buffs the whole group and stacks with everything there is a fear that the ability could get synergetically overpowered. Just a thought.[/p]
  19. ARCHIVED-MirageEIG Guest

    Glad to see Lockeye reading the user comments. Since I know thye take our comments into consideration here's my 2 cents. a) Like the dmg increases - I think the autoattack will be a very nice increase in particular when CoB is cast b) I like the speed increase with the exception of the AA line change - I would like to see this slightly higher. Not asking for ridiculous amounts but a way to get to 56% with only spending 4aa (if I am reading this forum right) or 60% or so with all 8aa would be sufficient. otherwise for 2% increase since I only plan on using 4aa's I rather just buy a horse and scrap my jboots to the bank for now One other thing... but did I miss the Zhanders fix that was promised somewhere along the way? Oh - and increase the drop rate of master in DOF while you are at it - sick of farming poet's trying to find spells (just thought I would throw that in there for general comment)
  20. ARCHIVED-Kamarile Guest

    [p]Just as a point, in-combat speed normally applies out of combat as well - this may in fact be a buff.[/p][p]1% out-of-combat and 1.5% in-combat may actually mean we go 2.5% faster out of combat...[/p][p]Not saying it is, but it might be, so let's check before unleashing the Flamethrowers :)[/p]