Diminishing returns on wards when value exceeds 1 billion

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Vencido, Mar 6, 2018.

  1. Sentrasia Well-Known Member

    Actually, it is an issue right now when some T3 fights are 250mil-350mil pulse per person. I'm sure T4 will be worse.

    As for group ward only working on the shaman I had not noticed that in ACT before, but going back to check I do see it only reporting umbral barrier on me. This is most likely a display issue with ACT.

    Guild leader also checked ACT and it's showing the shaman being hit 6-12 times each tick for their primary group ward but other group wards (aegis/soul shackle/prophetic ward) only show them being hit 1-2 times. Tick times compared to other group wards also has the 'warded shaman' hits matching instances of other group members being warded.

    Can also see in the log files that the ward timestamps are matching other group members being warded. If you track in logs wards record in clusters.

    As an example:
    [Sun Mar 11 17:44:11 2018] Acki's Scaled Protection absorbs 15091857 points of damage from being done to Acki. (117858141 points remaining)
    [Sun Mar 11 17:44:11 2018] YOUR Umbral Barrier absorbs 754593 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF. (745321058 points remaining)
    [Sun Mar 11 17:44:11 2018] YOUR Soul Shackle absorbs 37730 points of damage from being done to Acki. (375251290 points remaining)

    The above are actually all damage absorbed from Acki, despite it recording me for Umbral Barrier.

    Vs. if it actually wards me
    [Sun Mar 11 17:44:11 2018] YOUR Reprieve absorbs 15186013 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF. (90312823 points remaining)
    [Sun Mar 11 17:44:11 2018] YOUR Umbral Barrier absorbs 759300 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF. (743816035 points remaining)
    [Sun Mar 11 17:44:11 2018] YOUR Soul Shackle absorbs 37965 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF. (750540075 points remaining)

    Some fights recorded correctly on some of the shamans and others it showed only warding the shaman.
  2. Fleurs Active Member

    The problem is there is no consistency in their attempt to balance. Some spell just flat out not crit anymore (tribal rage, shroud of armor) and become useless, some previous xpac mob have 80% bleed, and some actual mob have 30% or 50%. They just flat out *some* maximum ward amount (ancient shroud and carrion warding, which latter is supposed to ward for double the amount of ancient shroud), which will render them useless in two expac, while some ward are still allowed to stay uncapped (empowered barrier), some are not even affected by bleed, and just stay at 50% bleed even on a mob that is set to have 80% bleed. (i wont tell the name of that specific spell here, because it will get nerfed)

    Every different ward have specific mechanic in it, which none are specified in examine windows (how does the pet group ward work? Does it crit? What about that warding totem? etc). So if you dont follow each patch note, and even some change that are not even in patch note, you have no way to know if that ward will crit, if that one is hardcapped, etc...

    Some logic and consistency in their attempt to balance would be much better in the long run.
    Earar likes this.
  3. Fleurs Active Member

    I must add, comparing a fury group ward !!proc!! to the main heal mechanic of shaman is flawed, as fury are mainly a hot class while shaman have almost none. It would be like me saying "fury are OP because they got multiple group HoT that each tick every 1.5 seconds while us, defiler, only have nightmare that proc every 4 seconds and last 24 second out of 30"

    Additionnaly, they take the time to cap wards, (if i wanted a game where all heal/ward does the same amount; 100% heal or 1 billion for ward, i would play guild war 1, where stuff didnt matter), but they dont fix even the most basic bug, last time i checked, nightmare could not reset via it's AA (it is our epic 1.0 spell!!), our deathward had no effect at all in the database (right click examine the spell in the broker, no cast time, no reuse, no effect, no text at all, has it been fixed yet?)

    And even if it is, since introduction of bleed, it is just useless as it heal for a fixed 3000 hp, and with the standard 50% bleedthrough, even a 9 billion ward will not stop a 6.000 damage hit.

    Their balancing is like a patchwork of bandaid on a wooden leg, they do whatever it take to hide the problem, with no thought about long term or consistency.
    Earar likes this.
  4. Earar Well-Known Member

    thing is .. we noticed because in Core my toon was taking a lot of damage, while usually my health bar doesn't move. I wasn't warded, only got the heals. that's why we checked after in ACT
  5. Earar Well-Known Member

    yeah they need a logic with all wards.

    it needs to be clear on people. Right now too many stuff are random and a player needs to understand easily what is needed and what isn't. What is usefull when and where. And how things work.

    the basics need to stay the same no matter what
  6. Clintsat Well-Known Member

    U

    I feel you on the epic 1.0 spell. Fury can't use theirs as it buffs out people's wards aside from being mostly useless.

    The reason a Fury proc ward should be compared to a Defilers group ward is that wards are essentially the only thing that matters in raids now aside from DR. Incoming damage outpaces group HP.
    Mermut likes this.
  7. quisling Well-Known Member

    I’m not even certain why this needs to be explained. Are we pretending that all those healers who swapped to shaman went from ineffective to uber by coincidence? It’s basically wards or death. Which flat out sucks when you don’t have really have wards.
  8. Duffy Active Member

    Many many years ago (like 10+) there was a time when group wards would apply in the order of people's group line-up (with the shaman of course always warded first as F1, then group member F2, et cetera). I think this got fixed, but could it be now again the issue?
  9. Earar Well-Known Member

    but there's only F1, no F2
  10. Fleurs Active Member

    It is just a display issue with ACT from what i've understand. The group ward is "owned" by the shaman, and any damage done to the group member is dealt to the shaman's group ward. As far as my personnal experience goes, my group ward is still preventing people to die. As far as other people experience goes (Sentrasia above on this thread), some looked into act and seen things that confirm that theory.
  11. Melkior Well-Known Member

    Earar, I am assuming you aren't using Pact of The Fire Tyrant? As using that Ascension causes wards to bypass you. Otherwise I have noticed no issues with my group wards.
  12. Earar Well-Known Member

    maybe it's ACT, but there is something odd

    I was tanking today, on a monk geomancer, and here is my incoming heals (defiler healer in outbreak)

    [IMG]

    and here's details of carrion warding

    [IMG]

    we only get the healing parts, not the absoption.
    Maybe it's just ACT problem. but no, it's not pact of the fire tyrant
  13. Mermut Well-Known Member

    I've been noticing similar in ACT as well.. it is, however, unlikely to be an ACT issue.. it is almost certainly due to a change to the way the wards are logged (dbg change). Similar to the removal of bleedthrough information from the logs :(