Crazy people .... SOE is going the right direction for us Warlocks. Dot stacking of the same spell is never going to happen, not on EQ1, unlike on EQ2. Stacking will bring about additional issues to the game ~~ exploits and such. In any case, our spells are aggro enough following the last big patch. Without a good tank, I gain aggro with my 2nd nuke on a mob (started nuking when mob is at 70% hp). Btw, a bard holds aggro better than a guardian /shrugs.
"Dot stacking of the same spell is never going to happen, not on EQ1, unlike on EQ2. Stacking will bring about additional issues to the game ~~ exploits and such." DoT stacking did get added to EQ1. It was added after Luclin was released. The reason it was added was so that two DoT'ing classes would stack on the same mob. Uh huh... care to explain exactly why or how this would allow people to exploit things or create issues? Or are you just talking rubbish about something you nothing about? "In any case, our spells are aggro enough following the last big patch. Without a good tank, I gain aggro with my 2nd nuke on a mob (started nuking when mob is at 70% hp). Btw, a bard holds aggro better than a guardian /shrugs." How does aggro have anything to do with DoTs stacking? I'm still waiting for a sensible explanation of why DoTs shouldn't stack. Just because Devastation is now on a 45 second timer that doesn't DoTs not stacking overall is fine. Especially when BSS can't be used by more than one Warlock in the same group/raid.
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Stacking will bring about additional issues to the game ~~ exploits and such. That comment is nonsensical. How would allowing players to use all of their spells/skills on a mob add issues or exploits? Does allowing 2 or more conj/necro pets to attack the same mob bring about any issues or 'exploits and such'? Does allowing 2 or more brigands to use Ruse on the same target cause issues? DOTs are just another form of damage... like direct damage nukes. DD spells and combat arts do not have the same stacking restrictions as DOT spells and combat arts. I'm not talking about debuffs either. It's obvious that if you have a bunch of players stacking str/agi/int debuffs on a target it would likely trivialise a lot of encounters. I have yet to see a reasonable explanation as to why the DOT stacking bug should not be fixed.
have you not been reading any posts? for warlocks and wizzies, damage is our big contribution to the group. some classes have buffs that don't stack when grouped with another of the same class, some classes have the ability to suck in damage (but when there are two of the same class, only one sucks in the damage). going by your argument, guardians have it the worst ATM, as their big contribution to the group (which is sucking in damage) is useless when grouped with another guardian. each class is slightly scaled down according the their BIGGEST CONTRIBUTION (each class has a different contribution). if warlocks and wizards could stack dots, the only thing that would be scaled down is our group buffs (which aren't THAT great in the first place), which would seem to me to be the biggest imbalance. so how is this not a sensible argument? you claim that this post isn't sensible but you keep avoiding the fact that every class should be scaled down A LITTLE bit but not be ruined (and i don't see how warlocks are ruined w/o dot stacking).
some classes have buffs that don't stack when grouped with another of the same There is a valid reason for not allowing buff stacking. Encounters (epic/raid) could be trivialised by grouping 5 templars with the MT giving him massive HP and AC. They would have to tune encounters around the possibility that palyers might use this advantage. Same goes for debuffs. If a mob could be debuffed down to the point where they could cast no spells and their melee damage was marginal, it would trivilaise some encounters. so how is this not a sensible argument? you claim that this post isn't sensible but you keep avoiding the fact that every class should be scaled down A LITTLE bit but not be ruined (and i don't see how warlocks are ruined w/o dot stacking). Because warlocks and wizards and every other mage also suffers from buff and debuff stacking limitations. On top of that, they have to deal with crippled DPS when grouped with another player of the same class. Any (every) class with group buffs is limited by buff stacking.
There is a big difference in ability stacking when talking about inability to do so vs not doing so for efficiency ... ie two guardians not tanking in the same group. They could both tank if they wanted to and indeed on raids they often do. Anyway that just made me think of an interesting thing from one of last nights raids were a guardian in our guild was 4th highest dps on an 8 minute fight.
guardians being more DPS is a different issue that should be addressed elsewhere, it is known that their main role is to take damage, and in a normal group they won't take as much damage when a second guardian is introduced. buffs from the same classes don't stack because buffs to other classes are more important (and therefore more imbalanced if they were allowed to stack) than they are to warlocks! if only buffs from warlocks didn't stack we would have an advantage!
DOT stacking of the same spell I was actually referring to. Okay talking about exploits = DOT stacking could result in buff stacking bugs that may result in exploits. Imagine if buffs from 5 clerics stack - that would be lots of ac and hp. Not being negative, but SOE is doing alright with Warlocks. I hate to see the Warlock community becoming like the Wizard community crying out for nerfs and fixes (that do not need fixing). Errr... unless many noobs have jumped the bandwagon to become Warlocks now??!!
Buff stacking is a different issue that should be addressed elsewhere, it isn't something you see being contested so it's a non-issue and does not need explaining or defending. I'm happy with how my class is playing out, no complaints, but I do see the validity of the dot stacking argument for many classes. Message Edited by Kaziq on 03-01-2005 11:51 PM
Simply from a programming perspective, allowing dots to stack would simply mean creating 24 fields (max raid size is 24) in a database for every DOT spell for every class for a single mob in the game. Thats a ridiculous amount of work imo. It also beats the purpose of upgrading spells when an appren 1 DOT stacks with an appren 2 DOT and soon on so forth on a mob. On the issue of exploits, imagine if 5 templars stack all their available reactive buffs on the main tank, or even if 5 mystics stack all their available wards on the main tank - it would be extremely hard to kill the tank, and future raid groups would simply be 1 tank and 5 healers in the main group. For that matter, it would be an amazing damage shield if druids can stack all their available damage shields on a single warrior. Just my 2 cents why I disagree with dot stacking. PS: To add on a little, if theres no DOT stacking issue, it takes the challenge out of the game - you don't have to plan and coordinate nukes anymore. Message Edited by Alfred75 on 03-02-2005 02:01 AM
Can a someone please explain how this spell actually is. Devastation first how much power does it cost to cast, second does it hit 500 x 5 for 2500 total damage.. OR does it hit 5 seperate mobs for 500 damage for total of 2500 OR does it hit 5 mobs 5 times for 12.5k total damage? what is the recast on this spell as well please.
Heh I'm beginning to think my arguments don't really hold so much water. You need to be aware I'm thinking from an EQ1 perspective. In simple terms EQ1 buffs and debuffs of the same type didn't stack but DoTs did. This was not over-powering in any way. It simply let every class play to their strengths. As for data lets take events like the Rathe Council. Now that's an event where it was not unusual to have 100 or more people in the same zone all casting their spells. Every one of those spells could be focused differently. From a programming perspective history shows us that it's not a problem to have that volume of data. A 24 man raid would be tiny in comparison. Direct heals stack, direct damage stacks, buffs don't stack (including reactive heals and wards), debuffs don't stack and DoT's don't stack. The complications arrive when you try to make spells do a number of different things. This is great in that it makes spells more interesting however it causes problems in the case of spells like Bellengere's Sapping Salvo (a primary direct damage spell) because of it's DoT component, which is a very small portion of it's overall damage. I think this is the point where we have to agree to disagree. Some people find it acceptable that all but one Warlock in a group/raid has to switch to Dark Distortion. Some people like me think that's [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. I'd be happy to leave DoT stacking how it is IF the DoT component was removed from Bellengere's and an extra 100 damage was added to it's direct damage component. Going on past experience Sony will try and make it so that people of the same class are not limited by one another but who knows when this will happen. Edit: I have no idea why the sig puts so much space below my message. Message Edited by Daerv on 03-02-2005 04:28 AM
Okay talking about exploits = DOT stacking could result in buff stacking bugs that may result in exploits. Imagine if buffs from 5 clerics stack - that would be lots of ac and hp. Last time I checked, cleric buffs do no do damage over time. Buffs != DOTs
Figured I would toss in my Two cents I think DOT stacking is fine ...They do stack in EQ ...if you played a Necro or with a couple of Necro's ..you would see its effects. I played a Shadowknight and my DOTs also stacked with members of my own class. (They used to not ...but they changed it ....so unless they changed it back recently they should still) The only thing SOE didnt allow were multiple stacking of the SAME DOT by the same person. If they are worried about Game balance they could also stager the DOT's as well ....point in case ..Warlock A casts DN for full damage....Warlocks B - E casts DN for stagerd damage...mabye 1/2 or even down to 1/6 its initial Damage over time. and these abilities stack...that way each Warlock is still contributing while not massivly Expoiting the Raid encounters. Just a thought
Effie, i know that buffs do not equal damage, that's painfully obvious. my point (which you seem to keep avoiding) is that a cleric's main purpose in a group is to prevent/heal damage. for warlocks, buffs are not nearly as important. if we let DoTs stack but buffs not stack, warlocks would be getting more of an advantage, as warlocks aren't hurt as much by not allowing buffs to stack. in short, clerics aren't hurt by DoTs not stacking, warlocks aren't hurt by buffs not stacking.
do 2 druids Heal over time spells stack? I do not no if they can or not, but that is a closer example then stackign buffs. And IMO dot's from different casters shoudl stack and heal dots from different casters should stack or i gives those dotting classes a disadvantage.
Thanks for saying that. I played a 65sk and when I played, shadow knights and necromancers would override my dots, regularly. Of course EQ1 is incredibly different than EQ2. EQ1 raiding has always been about force (raid size) > techinque. That being said, I think the fact that if two of the same class end up being in a raid or in a group, I don't think there's a huge penalty with DoTs not stacking. Now if 4 or more then it becomes a problem ... at which case you might ask yourself why you would go against so many odds and have 4 or more of the same class in any group or raid anyway. Last night I grouped with another warlock for about 45min. Since I had Dark Distortion adept III, I used that instead of BSS and we coordinated which dots each would use (he used aura of darkness, I would use dark emanations and steal breath.) His dps was until he left around 120dps, mine was 126. When he left, a wizard came to the group and stayed until I left an hour later. My dps bumped up to 138. So much for being useless when 2 of the same class get together.
in short, clerics aren't hurt by DoTs not stacking, warlocks aren't hurt by buffs not stacking. How are clerics 'hurt' (or less effective) by buffs not stacking?
