[Dev Attention Please] Warlock Ceiling Issues

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Mogrim, Mar 21, 2016.

  1. Rubick Well-Known Member

    Got em!
    Yoube and Veta like this.
  2. kluxor Well-Known Member

    I'm talking about quality raid geared warlocks. I wouldn't call warlocks doing 350-500m casual or mid tiered. No classes are perfect where everything performs how "we feel" they should. FC regardless of whether you're capping CB or not is still beast. I'm sure every other class wouldn't object to the mere 750pot you're upset over. I wish my hammer reset my PFT, wish my hemotoxins went back to their original damage, wish smoke bomb still reset too....but they don't and I accept it.

    There's a few classes that have legitimate reasons to complain and seek some boosts, warlocks in my opinion aren't one of those where they are on the parses
    Skulls likes this.
  3. Anunnaki Active Member

    And you likely won't because sharing fervor with a pet is apparently a difficult task. I'm not going to get this thread off track, but other classes have a lot more to complain about as far as broken mechanics before they even *begin* to talk about class balance.
    Xillean and Skulls like this.
  4. Mogrim Well-Known Member

    If a Warlock is doing 350m-500m, the BL should be doing 600-750m, the Ranger should be doing 450-650m, and the Wizard should be doing 400-550m. The Necro is hard to gauge, but probably right next to the Wizard. The Assassin will pretty much be in this same grouping. Oh, and this is only on sustained linked fights like Magicians and Psionists. Change the fight to single target, and not only does the Warlock not beat those other classes, but they're probably closer to the T2 Brigand than they are to the other T1s.

    You realize that at the higher levels 750pot is way way weaker than any of the other "super long cooldown abilities" that other classes get, right? WAY weaker. When a player has 1k pot, 750 pot is pretty significant. When they have 7k pot, its a lot less significant. FB doesn't have scaling issues like this. Neither does pretty much any other T1's temp. I'm pretty sure if I traded 750pot for FB, the Wizards would cry bloody murder. If I traded 750pot for Undead Horde, the Necros would all quit the game. And it goes on.

    If you're end game/nearly best in slot geared as a T1, and have a fairly equal quality of group set up/item strength as a Warlock and you're NOT beating the Warlock, you're either a Conjurer or a bad player. That isn't directed at **you**, just a general statement.
    DoomDrake likes this.
  5. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    Mogrim - question from warlock traveling somewhere between casual on the way to mid tier. How much hammer contributed to your DPS improvement (like say 100% was before hammer and with hammer it became like 150%?)
  6. Jrel Well-Known Member

    This has been our average order for the last 5 raids on psionists. I did miss a few parses where we had our filters turned on, so I might have missed some better top ends.

    Necro/Lock (our necro hit over 500 last week on psions when he wasn't lagging)
    Wiz 100 mill less than top
    Ranger + Hammer 120 mill less than top
    Brig/Assn 144 mill less than top

    I'm sure our melee dps could get higher parses if not being autoattack-lagged; although our casters would also benefit from less lag overall. I was able to actually get 2nd on the parse last night due to our lock not in raid, which enabled me to shave off an excess 1.2 seconds of my normal laggyashell 4+s autoattacks on that fight. I'm not saying the T1 DPS spellcasters are the main sources of lag though. We can not have a necro or lock and somewhat reduce the lag, or drop a whole group and not have lag (FYI, more deaths = less lag :) ), or some laggy cloaks are missing from raid, or have some nights where there isn't much lag. Last week, we had no lag on the magicians (for the first time in forever) on a night where most guilds weren't raiding. Also last week, we had considerable lag on a fight where we never lagged before.
  7. Skulls Member

    I think that warlocks are complaining about petty increases they want to their dps, there are many classes that have real broken and non working issues that are more important than trying to keep one overpowered class's pecking order back to the top of the parse. Warlock should be good at AoE fights that's their class specialty, after that move over, other classes have class specialties also and you should always lose the single target fights, warlocks are just fine and have lots of power, there was a reason the FC was lowered.
    Other classes are now the flavor of the xpac, you had your time in the spotlight, now let others have it, yes now the scouts are overpowered and the beastlord is insane, maybe they will scale it back soon to keep competition in the game, this is what's good for the game, they need to do a better job of class balance to keep it competitive for dps classes, and the warlocks will close the gaps with the scouts. But just like lowerering the warlock FC, if the beastlord and assassin are out of balance they need to scale them back some, not try to increases everyone elses damage to equal the top dps class level.
    Hopefully Daybreak can visit this soon, again the best thing for the game is for the dps classes to be competitive, any class if its too overpowered is bad for the game, so they need to adjust a few classes down some, that's a lot easier to do that raise lots of other classes to compensate for the few that have their damage too high.
    So lets leave FC where it is and lower some of the scouts damage and rebalance the ethereal war runes to make them equally good on all classes. The class relic cloak also needs this rebalancing, I do agree the warlock got shafted on the cloak and the Illusionist cloak is so broken its a joke, this needs to be scaled way back.
    Xillean and Yoube like this.
  8. Anunnaki Active Member

    I would trade the 30% potency + bad/unreliable proc I get from Plane Shift for 750% potency you get from FC so fast it's not even funny.
    Xillean and Skulls like this.
  9. Skulls Member

    ^^^^^^^Right and what even worse is that crappy class defining spell and AA tree endline, Plane Shift gives that small potency and bad damage proc ONLY to the pet! The conjuror gets nothing and peeps are thinking their FC is weak, wake up and stop drinkin the koolaid fellas.
    Xillean likes this.
  10. Yards Well-Known Member

    Isn't there a conjuror thread ?
  11. Anunnaki Active Member

    Yes, but when someone says, "750% Potency is way way weaker than any of the other 'super long cooldown abilities' that other classes get" I need to make sure to point out that that statement is completely and totally false.
    Xillean likes this.
  12. Mogrim Well-Known Member

    I've actually made posts about how I think Conjs need love. Unsure why you're returning those overtures with vitriol.
  13. Mogrim Well-Known Member

    You're cherry picking here. It's like if you were to complain about communion and I were to reply by saying dissolve is worse.

    All of us have "some endline ability that isn't really that great". Soulburn is pretty darn good. Elemental Blast is pretty darn good. Elemental Toxicity is still pretty darn good. Conj's and Necros have additional "pretty darn long cooldown spells" that are way better than what Warlocks have. Rift vs Communion? Please. Focused Casting vs Undead Horde? Again.

    Yeah, Plane Shift is bad. Yeah it isn't the only issue your class has. But to try to pretend that Focused Casting is fine because you can find other abilities that are worse is ignoring the fact that the entire reason Warlocks were ANY good at ALL was because Focused Casting was finally allowing us to scale a little bit. You've still got other ways to do that, and if fervor sharing ever gets fixed, you guys will be fine.

    Side note, you DO know that the Warlock equivalent to Plane Shift if Null Caress. right?
    And as long as I'm not despawning Toxilla eggs for NPU anymore by abusing that ability, it isn't relevant anymore.
  14. Rubick Well-Known Member

    Lol come on dude, for real? You have to see the irony in this after what happened in that wizard thread.
  15. Anunnaki Active Member

    Yeah, I may be cherry picking a little bit. I was just simply stating that some T1's don't even get a really nice long cooldown temp, and they would kill for a chance to complain about 750 potency.

    I also don't think any of this matters because xpac Beta seems to be the only time that class fixes/QoL issues are ever addressed.
  16. Mogrim Well-Known Member

    In fairness, the scope of this thread addresses a specific area where Warlocks are actually significantly weaker than Wizards AND Necros - that being the "end game geared with ideal situations/groups/utility" situation. So I'm again not sure why some people feel the need to jump in out of bad faith. Especially not when the people I'm seeing make bold statements are ones that actually aren't super knowledgeable about the game, anyhow.
  17. Mogrim Well-Known Member

    Right. I'm pretty sure you'd rather trade Plane Shift for Snipershot/Assassinate. ;)

    As to your second statement, Beta seems to be the time that the Devs make QoL/class fixes known to the public. It does seem that whatever changes happen, they're the result of some sort of Dev decision that happened prior to the Beta period, as the Beta period rarely results in additional changes to whatever QoL/balance changes that go in place.
  18. Rubick Well-Known Member

    Regardless of your opinion, if you think you guys are justified to try to turn every thread into a discussion about what's wrong with warlocks then there's certainly no room in this thread for complaining about people reciprocating.
    Jrel likes this.
  19. Entropy Well-Known Member

    So, yeah, this issue only affects a small percentage of well geared warlocks (capping CB in normal raid combat) in competitive raid guilds. I am one of them people - my CB sits between 2.8-3k during normal raid combat. I only raid. Don't care about heroic content, other than running it a few times to get whatever random item that's superior to raid loot that I need to farm every xpac.

    So, my "class defining" cooldown - Focused Casting - is pretty well gimped for me at this point. Is there any reason that someone in my situation shouldn't betray to a Wizard? I bought the betrayal token on a whim last night, and it's sitting in my bags, just lurking, waiting. Gives me something to ponder every time I open my inventory.

    So, devs, we have people already hitting the CB cap in normal raid combat, about half an xpac after you implemented it. Where are you going with itemization in the future? No more CB scaling on gear? What the heck are we to expect? And what about situations like Warlocks are facing right now, where our "best" buff is mostly nullified by a hard cap and also not reset by the much vaunted myth hammer... do you have some satisfactory advice for us?
  20. Errrorr An Actual EQ2 Player

    Could always consider changing some of your jewellery items giving you large amounts of crit bonus for some without if the CB cap is such an issue for you.