many older members quitting left and right due to ToV:Edifice's massive heath and rapid health regen. remember that Final Fantasy 11 online? when bunch of raiders got exhausted and some went to hospital after "Marathon" non-stop 72 hours fight. well, no one likes it, most players would expect to defeat within few minutes but not more than 10 mins while taking down 10%-15% after the pull, and finally kill them after 30-45 mins, my fingers were getting numb and were twishing when I was sleeping waking me up. and not very happy with loots compared to lot of time spend hitting epics. so here my feedback to devs, it is terrible and has to be "pure luck" after first "Touch of Tomes" that is unrealistic, some class need to be in "melee-range" to interrupt and raid got wipe several time due to "OUT of Range" at the pull, my opinion should be casting when their health is at 95% or less to start casting Touch of Tomes. right now it feel like it all about pure luck. maybe scale back that health regen rate that seem too much and made combat too long. not every guild are hardcore. also, I am very upset with some loots with very bad procs that would hurt groups, and some guilds already ban those items, hey devs, DID you read this??? they are banned items and useless items that will wipe some group teams if it worn in combat, and no one want them, they seem only good for soloing.
Not every guild will have the ability to clear all of the raid content. That's why its called "Progression", you have to progress through the content and the further you go the more challenging it gets. Our first Derig kill was lengthy but over time as we have gotten better at the encounter and more gear we have gotten the kill time down to well under 10 mins. Longer fights are part of the challenge presented in this expansion. Take Klandicar for example. That fight can easily last 20 mins and the worst part is you can wipe 19min and 30sec in and have to start all over. I complain about the length of some of these fights every time but I know its just a part of the challenge and I tell you what, after wiping to a 20 min encounter 4-5 times people really start to pay attention and do better. With some adjustments and overall effort from the raid force we were able to shave 4 mins off that time. As my guild/raid leader always says, "Find a way".
Cool Tip - Bladedance. If you can't interrupt Tomes from either named, you really need to get better interrupters. The cast time on it is plenty. Items are Risk vs Reward. I'm 99% sure that if a guild knew for sure it could trust its members to use the risky items without causing issues, it would.
So far 9 out 15 mobs in ToV, and i must agree to some extent with the OP. Named fights in that zone have way too much hp. It's really not fun to do some fights over 20 mins every week. I miss tso content like anashti that had battle fatigue that capped the fights to most 9 mins.
I honestly believe that many guilds probably have anywhere between 3-8mil in potential DPS being wasted by raid members simply not trying (I include debuffs here too). I see support classes and healers in particular slacking all the time. I don't think mob HP is the main problem here. Edit: clarification.
Anyone can throw up enough temps and saves to get through 4-8 mins of combat. It takes more player ability, focus and determination to get through a 20 minute encounter. And there is a greater sense of accomplishment after overcoming an encounter of such length rather than just blowing through encounters with durrations of 3-5 mins. The longer fights are a better test and measure of a guilds abilities.
I wonder how many of the guilds having trouble spend time farming SG and PK for gear upgrades. Raids with that gear vs raids without it are going to be night and day in DPS and kill times on ToV mobs. The physical and magical debuff ears from HM Gen'ra, the neck's from Psylon'Rhys (sp?), immunity and group buff weapons from PK. Those things make a bigger difference that to many people ignore and don't bother to get.
Healers and Utility standing around not DPSing? I don't believe it, where's the proof! (jk) Any healer with their auto attack on and at least (cause this isn't hard to obtain on any class) 450 dps mod with ~50% ae auto can put up 400-500k on Derig. If all your healers are slackluster (lackluster + slackers) you are potentially losing 2.5 million dps raidwide from their slackness. Add in slacking utility and you could potentially be at a 5 million loss. Yes I pulled these numbers out of my rear, but you get the idea, one person's slackluster can contribute to a raidwide deficiency. You might find these fights 20 minute ragefests now but once everyone continues improving, come July you'll be under 10 minutes. It requires continued effort on the entire raid's behalf. I always try to show up to raid on my main with a little something new each time - more economical reforge, maybe some adorns swapped around, or something a little extra in the spec. Never show up with last raid's materials and expect to improve! There's always -more- in the world of raiding, and it doesn't always come from gear, 9 times out of 10 it comes from player knowledge and improvement!
@Crychtonn I'm fairly sure the Developers expect guilds who are coming to a halt in Temple progression to actually go back and look into these "older" zones that have still relevant raid drops. There was the same line of thinking in running POW back in the beginning \ middle of CoE, really great group procs and some of those Teku items were priceless for raids unable to progress to Amalgamon or 3\4 well drinal. So it is a great reminder that you mention Djinn Master's Prism, Siren's Grotto and Pirate Kings! Don't be shy in returning to those zones, you'll be surprised how easy some of the fights are now even in just Potent gear!
I would expect 10 mins to be average for most Raid Bosses in the "last" zone. This is because as others have said, many guilds are able to cycle blocker/temps for a solid 3-4 minutes. It takes coordination, skill and knowing your class to go past that. Solo fights should not last longer than 2 minutes Heroic fights should not last longer than 5 minutes Raid fights should not last longer than 15 minutes That's just a mantra I think by when looking at fights versus the players willingness to do them. Anything longer than a 15 min fight and you get: "Ugh Bob. Why did you miss your Bladedance? The boss was at 7% now we have to spend another 17 minutes getting him down again. Thanks, thanks a lot Bob." Nobody likes the above being shouted at them by their Raid Leader.
I'll add most players can improve their numbers by 5 - 15% simply by specing better. Once I can figure out how to get Xsplit working I'll likely do a short presentation on it.
Also, don't forget that Temple is a flat progression zone, meaning there is no Hard Mode \ Challenge Mode in the zone somewhere on specific bosses after you "beat" the zone EM, it just keeps getting harder the deeper you go (that's what she said, giggity!). How far did your raid force make it in CoE? Did you fully clear PoW when it was relevant (up through CoE, basically), did you ever complete 4 well Drinal when it was current, or Amalgamon, or HM Boraddas? (Rhetorical questions not exactly asking anyone specific). All of these and other encounters were considered "harder progression" in CoE, but could be done after "clearing" a zone out, with ToV you can't "clear" Temple and then go revisit encounters to go challenge, and I think that may be the biggest mental roadblock for many raids who are stuck frustrated at Derig or others. It's hard to swallow (that's what she....ok I'll stop! ), but many raids may not make it through Temple (Wing 1, Wing 2, Outer Wing) until late into this, or even the next expansion! Even getting to Grendish can be considered quite the accomplishment at this point in the Expansion's cycle. As frustrating as it is to come to a stop well before #15 in the zone, remember the way progression was setup in that zone and it might not be so frustrating. That's how I thought of it in Beta any way, when we were told of the flat progression, that it could be possible we wouldn't get all the way through!
The narrowed character "power" spread as a result of the much closer itemisation gapping (from solo all the way up to raid endgame) should be putting the emphasis on player skill more than ever before. I'd probably agree with those that speculate that the issues reside on the side of the players themselves.
My problem isn't the raid names, but rather the loot table so far in ToV. My Raid force has cleared up to the 5th name...problem is that 4 of the first names usually drop garbage based off of their procs. Seriously some of this stuff won't even be bidded at all for mains because the procs have such a massive downside to them that it's not worth it. Some of the procs are obviously made for soloing or other one time situational crap. Just downed Swiftclaw again tonight and got a Non-Fighter wrist with a proc that gives 750,000 threat with the benefit being 5.5% crit bonus raid wide...seriously? Does SoE look over this stuff before they place it ingame? Or is a it computer that randomly assigns wacky numerical equations to various pieces of equipment?
That is another of those Risk V Reward items. You risk pulling hate at the benefit of a dps boost. I do not know if -Hate Mod would effect it though, doubtful. Also depending on how it procs that won't touch tanks too much.
odd, from what most people say, like the first few mobs in ToV drop the best stuff, that and the last like 2 mobs. all the middle ones drop are pretty meh
