I hate to come here and break anyone's bubble, but I've seen a Templar do 35-40k dps, a defiler break 30k and every other healer do 50k+ dps. The difference between those people and the naysayers crying here is that those people are super-dedicated to playing to their fullest potential. If you just want to be a great healer as far as pure healing ability, that's fine, but you're wasting part of your built-in utility. A truly great healer is the one doing their job healing without overhealing while also doing the maximum dps they can and casting all vital debuffs without fail.
Elhonna@Blackburrow wrote: I am not surprised some defilers can break 30k dps. The more potency you get the more dps you do. Of course it's more than that . My point all along was that we have more than enough tools at our disposal to do some dps alongside nice healing. 30k dps sounds impressive, but it doesn't really say much when others are doing 150k or 200k dps. Personally I find that debuffiing the mob is much more important than casting a few other abilities, which granted add to our dps. In the end , it's up to the individual player how they want to play. The ones that cannot figure out how to play will keep complaining and the others will just play the game and get better and better results.
Don't know where you're getting 150k-200k as far as healers...The highest parsing fury in the world in the highest parsing guild in the world I saw break 150k on a single 17 second AoE trash burn...that's not really 150k on a consistent basis. If dps classes can do 100-300k that's because they are dps classes. You seem to be saying that the OP was full of whiny crap, with which I agree, though, so not sure what the last post was really about
Elhonna@Blackburrow wrote: sorry my bad. i meant dps classes do 150k or over not us healers. Bad way of expressing myself which led to a misunderstanding . We as healers do what we do, i've seen mystics doing 50-60k, furies doing something decent as well. we defilers don't really amaze the world with our dps, but we can hold our ground and and put out 20-30k sometimes.
've noticed you have been giving healers spell double attack lately and upgrading there spell damage. Theirs two things id like for you to look at. Rabid Hostility, its been in our Shaman Line for awile. it adds 2% Hostile Spell Casting Speed. We have been Capped for casting speed since TSO, this aa line was made in SF. Can you change it to 1-2% Spell Double Attack Per Point?, this will greatly improve the damage we do, so we can do damage on par with Mystics as a Defiler. Also Spiritual Ally. We give up 20% Healing for 10% damage and a useless pet proc. Can you change the pet proc to 10% Spell Double Attack?
Failathion@Nagafen wrote: If this is supposed to be a suggestion for the devs, why not make your own thread ???
I can't really speak for SF or DoV, but I know in TSO until you had a reasonable bit of AA, defiler dps was miserable, but with even a decent bit of AA and reasonably decent gear and upgraded spells/abilities DPS was decent and soloing was more then tolerable. By endgame, with 150+AA and decently good gear and upgraded spells my defiler was putting out 4K+ parses solo. As it is, I still have no problem taking down multiple mobs or even single targets, while maintaining self healing. Learn to use the class better, and use your auto attack, and your dog. Even if your dog is ONLY doing 200 DPS, it adds up. Menial or not, the dog is a useful tool, and your wasting potential by not using it, all you have to do is send it in to attack, or even set it to defend itself and you, and then ignore it. Auto attack is the same way, hit the ~ key and go back to casting. And last but not least, if its REALLY that bad, use your HO's, that little thing you get REALLY early on around lvl 8 or so?? yea, it can add a K to your dps if you get the right ones. Just my 2cents, but defiler DPS is fine, and our healing is top of the line.
Mrrshan@Runnyeye wrote: Mystics,inqs and furies are doing 100-150k. My personal highest as MT templar was 90k, average around 50-60k. I'll say defiler can do more, prolly not so high as mystic, but average should be around 80k. It's all about skills and gear.
Arabani wrote: I don't know where you're getting your numbers from, but they are not realistic. Anyone can probably do amazing dps in full raid gear with all the bonuses etc but since that is not really attainable by most of the population your post is moot and worthless. We are talking here about class dps in general. Your "skill" is not gonna help you do great dps if you don't have the gear to support it. "Average should be around 80k" . That is pure BS to be honest.
Since I posted last here, yes, my dps has skyrocketed, especially on AoE fights. And especially on burns where people are blowing Miracles and Blessings...but please don't try to even remotely convince people that those healers are doing those numbers zonewide, because they aren't end of story. Yes I can do 120-140k dps on a good AoE burn...I can even do close to 100k single target dps. But I don't do it every fight. Granted SoN's rw dps could use some work, but there's no way in the world zonewides for healers are that high in any guild outside of Equilibrium or Surreal on easy mode crap.
You guys are funny. As I've played both classes. (was originally a Defiler for 3 years, betrayed to Mystic (3 months prior to DoV), betrayed back to Defiler (month prior to DoV), then back to Mystic (month in to DoV)) I can safely say that the DPS of a defiler is dependant on, but not limited to: 1. AA 2. Gear 3. Debuffs on the mob 4. Compentence of the Defiler 5. Group Make-up. This also holds true for every class in the game. As soloing was slow as a Defiler the dps output was on par with the capable healing output of the class. To request to be on par with a Mystic's DPS is kind of a outrage per say. If you want it to be on par, then betray. I have no troubles what so ever keeping up with the Defilers in my guild (hps wise), while providing better utility, dps, and arguably buffs. It's not that the class needs "beefed up" it seems to be more of your understanding that needs adjusted. I've seen our Defilers parse around 80k dps on a encounter in Kraytoc (Taalak Ring Event) while providing 5k hps. Do they do this every fight, absolutely not. Do they parse 5khps+ every fight? you'd better bet they do. The point is don't cry to the dev's about being the best healer in the game, while being the 2nd worst dps in the game. Otherwise if the give you dps they need to nerf your heals so you can be on par with Mystics....
I dont agree either .. we heal.. thats what we do. We do a great doing it too. Yes mystics have a bit more dps but look at inquis/templar inquis puts out alot more dps than a templar its just the differences of classes. Personally I didnt do the mystic thing then betray, I grouped ..ALOT.. if not always. let someone who dps do the dps.. you just heal them.. you gain lvls fast. Cant find someone to group with, slowly kill mobs. It never truely takes 15 min to kill them. You say your comparing yourself to classes you see take them down faster. What do you think they see w defilers? We stand in the middle of 15 mobs, warded and health not budging while we slowly take em all down and have full mana to boot. IMO its just as fast to pull 15 mobs than one. dot them all, then defile they fall pretty fast (solo). I love my defiler just the way it is.. I dont want my heals to suffer for any kind of dps. And no way is soe going to give us more dps without taking away our heals. We shine just the way we are.
My highest parses on the Taltak ring event groups so far is ~137k which at the time put me say 5th, or 6th highest out of the whole raid. My understanding for Defiler dps is sheer number of mobs. The more mobs you pull, especially of the same encounter, the more outgoing dps you will see. And with the Defiler's strong warding/healing and power managment they have the stamina they need to really shine. Sure defiler dps is terrible per mob, but watch the exponetial increase as you fight more mobs at once. And I agree that Defilers are fine just they way they are. They don't need more dps, they need their strong healing capabilities to survive where the thrive. Heck, if Shaman had a reliable 2nd group cure like say druids and inquisitors get I'd say they'd be considered overpowered. With 2 group cures any non-shaman priest would be more of a buff bot then a healer.
Our DPS really does need to be looked into. Anyone who throws out how great our dps is, needs to show a pie of the dps break down. POTM/POM/VC/ET doing more dps then our spells. our only saving grace is Avenging Ancestors. It and Master Smite are the only things we have worth casting during Time warp. And mystics have both those spells. I asked my raid leader to put me into a mage group so i could see my dps potential and all i can say is i was at the bottom of the dps, I wasn't even beating any troubadors like the other healers. Ya someone has to be at the bottom, but don't kid yourself to think a mystic and inq can't do the healing a defiler/templar can. They have the better heal stances, and when the wards are Just as huge, throw in the fury buff and the mystic will throw down bigger wards in off stance then defilers in heal stance.
Nedm wrote: If that was supposed to be a joke, well I fail to see the humour in it. I suggest you look at classes and understand the diference between scouts ( yes that includes troubs ) and healers. If other healers can beat troub that means they have better gear / aa / skill. When all these are equal the troub will win most of the time. The second bold line ... all i can say is duh. The fury buff gives you a lot of ability mod based on their dps so if you get the fury buff then you will throw bigger wards than mystics. It's a logical conclusion which in very advanced mathematics sounds like this : X + 0 crap < X + bigger crap ( where X is the size of the ward being equal in your example between shamans ). Whoever gets the fury buff wards for more ... again duh.
I don't thing healers should be dpsing, and neither the tank for that matter, but that's a different argument. The advantage since dov is the dps healers can heal better than before and dps better. I've noticed alot of healers with little dps being replaced by DPS healers because they offer both. Thing is I don't want my healer to be DPSing, I'd much rather have major buff/ward/cure/heal increases that keep the low dpsing healers offering alot more than their counter class healers who can offer loads DPS.
Well I have a few things to say about this topic, and I think a lot of people are scared if they touch something, defilers will lose their healing advantage they have over other healers, and lose their purpose. To me, such an attitude is one that continues the issue over time, and compounds the problems latter down the road, tho I do agree DPS is not the only way to fix the issue. While our counterparts mystics don't have a second group cure, the lack of one, on either class, assures that shamans are automatically second healers for much of the current raid content. Plainly sad, no healer should have the advantage of being able to possibly solo heal a group when a second couldn't because of something as simple as cures. Now to get into the debate of providing DPS over heals, while I have no issue with one healer providing better DPS than another with better heals. If a healer provides better DPS it should not be because it provides better group buffs than one that heals better, the reality is, the healing heavy counterparts of all healer classes, have inferior group buffs period, almost nothing that a defiler bring in group buffs, has any advantage on group survivability, or DPS, or even utility over a mystic . At the same time, a mystic gets better group DPS and utility buffs. The only true reason to take a defiler over a mystic in a group is, does they little extra healing a defiler does make this possible to do, where it isn't with a mystic. While that may be true in some circumstances still, they are becoming more and more rare, and I recognize this issue and I play a raiding defiler that my guild would never get rid of or tell me to betray. Now for the bright side, while these issues may exist, many of them could become smaller issues with the combat mechanic update here in GU61 that also changes all gear that could allow defilers some options to fix some of our weaknesses.
Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote: False. I play both classes and defilers are capable of way more healing. The only time a mystic will ever outheal an equally geared and skilled defiler is on a heavy AOE fight while Spirit Tap is active. Mystics also have a slight edge on single target healing of someone in their group with Oberon, but even that advantage is overcome when it comes to potential healing that a defiler can output with all of the tools we have available (mythical buff, deathward, maelstrom, nightmares, shroud of armor, etc.). The primary reason guilds like mystics is because they provide more DPS, more utility and (unless the content requires extreme healing) the extra healing a defiler is capable of over a mystic is simply not needed.
You are doing something really wrong then, Defiler in my raid guild pares up to 95k dps.. while healing MT. This isnt on the ring event either.. this is just on the trash. Named fights he usually does around 35-45k.. guesstimated
