Death of Cazic Thule

Discussion in 'History and Lore' started by ARCHIVED-Whilhelmina, Oct 27, 2012.

  1. ARCHIVED-Whilhelmina Guest

    Ok, I need lore junkies ;p
    While running quests in Obol Plains (second overland zone of the expansion), I stumbled upon 2 followers of Drinal and I told them that the problem in Ethernere is due to the fact that Drinal cannot absor the essence of the 2 gods that died, Rallos Zek and Cazic Thule (first occurence is in the quest Religious Studies, dialog is there).
    I, mere mortal from EQ2, know that Rallos Zek and Cazic Thule died, fact that is not known to Venox Tarkog (former dismal rage priest) nor Duskrender (lujien follower of Drinal) who are both inhabitants of the plane. I did not finish the quests within the first overland zone (Eidolon Jungle) as I had gated myself at one point, so I don't know if we learn more towards the end of the zone but still, the problem remains.
    It seems that I was sent to Ethernere to deal with the power overload of the plane due to the death of 2 gods. As far as I know, only Zek died in EQ2, but Cazic only died in EQ, which is an alternate universe as said in Skyshrine. So why is Cazic dead in EQ2 Ethernere? Is the same Ethernere common to the 2 alternate universes? It "could" be, but there's another problem within the Ethernere lore:
    All mortals go to the divine plane of Drinal (Ethernere) when they die. The problem is that, when the gods left, the other divine planes couldn't be accessed anymore by the souls of the departed and so they had to stay in Ethernere. When the gods returned, the souls remained trapped in Ethernere (no explanation there).
    All those new souls trapped in Ethernere for 200 years added a lot of power to Drinal who has gone from sub-deity to full deity.
    So now, if Ethernere was common to EQ and EQ2, the souls would have been able to reach the divine planes. If the souls were barred due to the gods absence, then EQ and EQ2 do not share the same Ethernere, so Cazic Thule shouldn't be dead in EQ2's Ethernere.

    What do you think?
  2. ARCHIVED-Jait Guest

    Zebuxoruk says 'When the timeline is weak enough, a new assault will come to Norrath. By then your powers will be so great that both past and future will be evacuated, their peoples to make a last stand in the Now. What a magnificent effort that shall be, though it will be utterly futile. At the moment of your greatest despair, look up and see the Alabaster Tower which shall offer your [salvation].'


    Could be EQ2 and EQ1 will have an event that leads to EQ3. Then EQ1 and 2 will go their seperate ways again. Just my personal theory.
  3. ARCHIVED-General_Info Guest

    Jait@Venekor wrote:
    given that we've seen portals to the past coming up intentionally made or not (skyshrine/chronoportal event) perhaps the split of the timeline is causing some sort of friction between the two chronostreams that damages both of them? or perhaps there is some sort of paradox with one dead god from EQ1 and another from EQ2's timelines in ethernere (perhaps when the split occurred ethernere was unaffected) is causing soem sort or paradox like problem (as well as the dead from both timelines ending up there)
    in my oppinion based on what ive seen and read ingame we try to stop the end of our universe (same for EQ) in vain and the salvation is the creation of a new universe (or a melding of the two) for the saved to populate. in any case they'll keep EQ and EQ2 running me thinks since content/lore doesnt need to be released chronologically.
  4. ARCHIVED-Rainy Guest

    because in EQ1, the Gods are having thier own battles with another set of Dieties that have been moving on them/trying to take them out/absorb their power/realms.
    it's likely this is causing the spirits of Eq1 to remain trapped there, while thier gods are trying to get the cosmic realms back in order. ( I beleive the death of Cazic is from him combining/merging with other deities trying to pull what Rallos tried in EQ2..not sure on the lore of the 'House of Thule' storyline that culminates in his death)
    the Steward also says that some souls never hear, or refuse to answer the calls of thier 'deities' and remain on Ethernere. that's another reason why. another reason is that the essences of Fear and War are taking/consuming souls..so perhaps they are just not making it.
    but yes, Ethernere touches all versions of Norrath. which is why there are places infected with Fear, and some places (or races, ie: Ogres) infected by War.
    and also remember that lot of the NPCs don't even realize they are in Ethernere. they might realize they aren't on Norrath, but they don't think thier dead, either.
    not to mention the reality of the plane is warped by personal perception. like Oggok. Oggok in ethernere is the combined racial perception of every ogre that lived in Oggok. like your Dismal Rage priest might be from EQ1...but has come across people/places that are from EQ2...so assume that X amount of years have passed. because time has no meaning there.
  5. ARCHIVED-Meirril Guest

    They did what?
    ...
    Mixxing the afterlife from 2 divergent realities shouldn't work. Rallos is dead in one reality (ours), and alive in the other (EQ1). Cazic is dead in one reality (EQ1) and alive in ours (EQ2). If those spirits are connected through the Ethernere then there is a real problem. Does suddenly being half-dead cause the gods to weaken? Does it cause them to become more powerful (as they absorb the other dead diety)? Do they exist equally in multiple realities? If so...what does it mean to kill one? You closed them off from a reality or will they come back eventually? This has some serious cosmological implications. Worse, the effects should of caught up with our Cazic some 500 years ago, while Eq1 will never be affected by our dead Rallos because of the time difference. We know our Cazic is just fine because he was one of the first dieties to return.
    For that power to manifest in the Ethernere tends to lend credince that the diety is at least in part dead and linked to the fate of what happens to mortal souls. It also brings up the question of what exactly happens to beings duplicated by the time-split? Were two beings created, or was a single being in two locations only to be merged when both halves died? What about newer souls? Are we still split beings? What are we? Something streached thin like Rikantus Everling's shattered soul?
  6. ARCHIVED-Rainy Guest

    I beleive Eq2 is using Ethernere like Chaos Comics used the Nexus of all Things.
    all realities stretch like a web from a singular point. for us, the point is Ethernere. Eq, Eqoa, Eq2, and EqNext will all touch the same point of origin.
    there are npcs in Ethernere from EQoA. some from EQ2, others from Eq1. Eq's Cazic died...adn thus his essence moved to Ethernere. same with Rallos. but while ethernere touches these two realities..it isn't part of them. in theory, you could travel to Ethernere...and become a lost soul in EQ1 norrath. or vice versa. it might even be why Necromancers have a seemingly never ending supply of essences for thier undead pets. they are not strictly taking the dead from EQ2..but from EQoA, or EQ1 as well. or think of eq1 and eq2 panteon/norrath as making a big X. Ethernere is the point at the center of the X.
    eq1 -> Eq1 deities realms is the / line
    eq2 -> eq2 deities realms is the \ line.

    or maybe a better way is ethernere is the point of an upside down pyramid. the four corners of it are Eq1 planes/Eq2 planes/Eq1 norrath/Eq2 norrath
  7. ARCHIVED-Whilhelmina Guest

    I find that your explanation makes some kind of weird sence, Rainmare, but I still believe the same kind of thing as Meirril. I just cannot buy this paradox, it's not based on straight facts. Having NPCs from EQoA and EQ1 is not a problem (they were born before the time split) but 2 totally different realities in conflict in a single plane... No, I just can't believe it, even if time passes in a weird way, and reality is affected by what you know and such.
  8. ARCHIVED-Rainy Guest

    another way is to think of norrath and the Pantheon as a multilayered cake, sitting on a plate.
    the plate is ethernere.
    now I can cut that cake into as many slices (realities) as I want. there maybe be some minor difference between each peice, but every peice of cake has the same amount of layers and touches the same plate.
  9. ARCHIVED-FreaklyCreak Guest

    Rainmare@Oasis wrote:
    I do love cake refrences. xD
  10. ARCHIVED-Rathorius Guest

    Celos@Nagafen wrote:
    But, but, but.......


    ........the cake is a lie!
  11. ARCHIVED-Rainy Guest

    and to further go with it..all the crumbs, no matter what peice of cake they are from, are all on that same plate. the crumbs here being the dead souls/dieties
  12. ARCHIVED-General_Info Guest

    regarding the gods since time was split along with space it makes sense that anything material. god or otherwise was duplicated or split into two halves of equal energy/matter.
    Rainmare@Oasis wrote:
    im assuming this other set is from another reality if so EQ1 has established that by the EQ1 gods fighting deities from another reality that their powers work outside their -own- reality. however since ethernere is connected to all of them it mgiht work differently we know the silver reaper can bring people back to life but the extent and nature of how he does this is not explained.
    It could be as simple as shunting the soul back with one of the gods of that reality restoring the person's body or he could restore their body himself.
    personally i think the way ethernere would work for dead gods isthat they can only influnce their own reality/timeline and souls originiating from there.
    as for merging two halves of the whole i'm not sure i've ever seen anything ingame saying oen way or another wether this is possible (by this i mean two merging and becoming one consciousness as opposed to a soul being imprisoned in/dominated by another soul like kyle bayle was in the shade of bylze)
  13. ARCHIVED-Whilhelmina Guest

    Logged the first bit of info obtained in Eidolon Jungle (info you get before reaching Obol Plains, that I couldn't get earlier because quests were broken):
    You say to Zeeil, "Giirn said Cazic's spirit was in Ethernere as well. How can that be, when Cazic is still alive?"

    Zeeil says to you, "There is much that is difficult for your mind to grasp. You see Ethernere in three dimensions, connected to your reality as if by a strand. But imagine that this same strand connects to a multitude of planes, many of which share the same characteristics as yours."

    You say to Zeeil, "I'm not sure I understand."

    Zeeil says to you, "Why did I not see this sooner? The lizardmen were much more quick to mobilize than the ogres, and began channeling Fear's energy into this plane almost immediately after... I should have linked these events. But my mind was too... addled to make the connection."

    *************************
    Second bit of dialog on the same topic with an amygdamalian:
    You say to Gulthga, "No, it is not, and you have not yet joined your maker. You are still in Ethernere, and need to pass on first."
    Gulthga says to you, "Something is not right. Cazic IS here, and yet... I still sense him in the prime plane. Perhaps you can serve me after all. The lizards here, they are devoted to our god, and yet they attack us! Their fear should cripple them, but it is as if Cazic himself has shielded them. I must as ses our situation."
    (you're sent to check the fear within local creatures)
    Gulthga says to you, "Your attempt to confuse me is for naught, morsel. Not only am I physically superior to your kind, my mental capabilities surpass yours tenfold! But just to be clear... since your phrasing was that of a lesser being... what do you mean they are not from the same realm?"
    You say to Gulthga, "Unbelievable. I will attempt to explain so that your... extremely large brain can take it all in: These creatures are not all from the same Fear plane. Some of them are much more ancient, more primitive than others."
    Gulthga says to you, "Primitive... that does make sense... The presence we feel here, it is Cazic, untouched by the turmoil of your plane. Centuries younger. This should fill me with devotion, but instead I feel a sense of... I do not know this feeling, nor do I like it."
    You say to Gulthga, "Is it dread you feel?"
    Gulthga says to you, "Impossible! Amygdalans cannot feel fear, we are the very children of Fear! We... must discover the agenda of this ancient spirit. I call upon you once again, most lowly servant. You will travel to the Fear Gate and treat with the lizardmen there. Discover what orders they have from this Cazic, and why we are being pulled into Ethernere!"
    You say to Gulthga, "Lucky for you, this interests me as well."
  14. ARCHIVED-SgtPmpkn Guest

    I actually like this idea of the Ethernere connected to all Everquest realms. It adds a different and fun dynamic that could enhance the story and depth of EQ2.
  15. ARCHIVED-Meirril Guest

    SgtPmpkn wrote:
    The major problem in this is that the Ethernere is a clearing house for souls. Things die in Norrath (a), go to the Ethernere, and after a time move on towards their final destination which is usually the realm of a diety (in the Planes of Power (a)). If the souls are sucked from multiple dirvergent realities into a single Ethernere...how do they find their way back to their own realm/reality? How does a single Drinial go between each of the dirvergent realities and his own home plane? Does there exist on his own plane a single Dirinal or infinite Drinals? Exactly how many dirvergent realities connect to the Ethernere? How many demi-gods has Dirinal created to assist him? If there is a single Dirinal does he pull power from every reality (thus making him potentially the most powerful diety of all?)?
    This gets rediculous very quickly.
    Next big question. If the Ethernere connects to every reality...that makes the Ethernere the center, right? If so...is this the real "Void"? Does the Nameless dwell here? Is Drinial actually "The Nameless"? Or a direct servant of? Is the Ethernere "The Nameless"? Apparently there can be more than one Ulteria that links to its own "the Void" which in light of a single Ethernere amongst multiple realities makes it much less likely to be the home of "the Nameless", unless you think there can be multiple "The Nameless" like there can be multiple Cazic Thules and Rallos Zeks.
    Did I mention this was ugly?
  16. ARCHIVED-Cyliena Guest

    I just got to the point of talking to Giirn for this quest. Right away I remembered seeing people mention what happened during House of Thule on EQ and talked to my hubby about it. He said, "so basically Ethernere is an existence between existences"... and while that sounded insane, it made perfect sense.
    The Ethernere is everywhere and nowhere!
    Meirril: The thought of multiple versions of the gods existing is indeed confusing. Maybe we have an alternate version of Cazic while EQ has an alternate version of Rallos. Maybe the gods transcend realities and time and have already existed and lived through everything that was, is, and will be.
    Maybe Cronyn will just come here and help clarify this! ;)
  17. ARCHIVED-Rainy Guest

    Ethernere wasn't a 'Plane' like we think of. Ethernere was more like Ultera or the Void itself. a seperate realm, but not really a divine plane, nor was Drinal a 'god'. it wasn;t until Ethernere was cut off from the planes of power/influence, that the souls got stranded there and the amount of energy 'boosted' it to a plane, and Drinal became a god by proxy of being in charge of the realm.
    when it became an actual divine plane, it gave Cazic/Rallos it seems a chance to try for a 'get out of death free' card. which is why they could try to emerge on/influence it.
    as to the various souls...remember that Ethernere molds itself to your perception. so someone that died 500 years ago, sees a different Ethernere then someone that died 50 years ago. I imagine that alteration in perception allows them to travel to the timeline/realm of thier 'home' diety, rather then being sucking into an EQ2 realm.

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