Dear Daybreak

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Miss_Jackie, Dec 4, 2018.

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  1. Feldon Well-Known Member

    Even in Las Vegas and Atlantic City, casinos are required to publish the odds of winning.
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  2. Uwopo Member

    Let's face it, EverQuest has never been a charitable endeavor and is even less so with ties to an investment company. When King can pull in hundreds of times the revenue of Daybreak with the likes of Candy Crush, I consider myself lucky that the games I'm interested in are still available. Making appearance and cosmetic items available through micro-transactions doesn't damage the integrity of the game and provides extra revenue that may be a determining factor in the game continuing to be supported.

    That said, DBG really doesn't understand the concept of a micro-transaction and I'm not at all a fan of loot crates. $99 for a familiar crate that guarantees an ultra-rare familiar is a macro-transaction, not micro. Likewise, $120 to upgrade a single ascension from journeyman to ancient is crazy, especially since a subscriber gets a measly 10% discount. To make matters worse, the game has absolutely transitioned to a pay-to-win system. To excel in the top content, it's pretty much a requirement that you invest in researched spell/ascension upgrades, familiars and mount leveling, and premium infusers. Instead of cash transactions being an alternative to a subscription, you're pretty much required to subscribe AND purchase items to succeed.

    I still play the game because I enjoy it, but there's no disguising the fact that the game has become a cash grab. At some point, the fun return on that investment is going to outweigh the cost and EQ2 will join the list of sunset games.
    Quillyne, Eradani, Kheldar and 7 others like this.
  3. Cyrrena Well-Known Member

    I bought 1 7-pk of the gingerdread mercenaries the first year they were available and got at least one of each, I did get 2 of the ninjadread merc, luckily 2 different characters opened the crates with the ninjadread mercs in them. That particular year, I had the money and decided to treat myself and I wanted the gingerdread family. That is the only time RNG has ever smiled on me and I am glad it did. I bought the crate when they were having a 40% off sale, I think it was New Year's Eve that year.
  4. Cyrrena Well-Known Member

    I have absolutely no problem with paying for a game I enjoy, hence, I do pay subscriptions on multiple accounts. I also from time to time if I can afford it buy some DBCash, I buy the expansions. I fully understand that DBG is not a charitable entity. Their employees like a paycheck and deserve one. DBG requires revenue to pay electric, water, buy hardware, develop software, pay employees, general maintenance and more just like any other business. Honestly, none of us can go into the local grocery store and get free things just for going in, we cannot go to the petrol station and get a free liter of petrol because we have bought something there before. I do not understand where the "I should get free stuff because I utilize your servers for free* thinking comes from. I guess I am too old, we used to have to shell out $50 for a game and some of them would give us 30 days of play time because there was no free trial period. If you wanted to even log in when the 30 days ran out, you had no option but to pay a subscription. They have to make money or shut the doors. Do you want to work for free? Not from what I see, a lot of people say "my hard earned money", well when you are complaining about spending "your hard earned money", you are not taking into account that utilizing anything from any gaming company, not just DBG, and not paying anything to utilize it, you are taking the "hard earned money" of the people that work for that gaming company.

    The only issue I have with this whole chocolate coin thing, is the items that can be purchased to get coins. Why are the gifty bags not on the list, ok a single gifty bag falls below the $5 mark, but a 3-pack or larger of them would hit the $5 mark and more. I bought a dozen of those gifty bags last year and would get as many people into town as I could to grab the gifts from them. I loved those bags because I was giving something special to other players and was thrilled when 3 people shouted out that they got the mount from them. Why does the purchase of the current expac or an upgrade on your already purchased expac not earn you some of these coins. I would be all up for dropping the cash to upgrade the version of the expansion I already bought, I am going to do it when the 50% off sale occurs in the fall, I would do it now if I could get some of these chocolate coins for doing so.

    I do not want a race change potion, a vitality potion, or any of the other items really. I already have 20 slots on this account, I do not really need any more but that is the only item in that list that I would purchase. They are called holiday bundles, but none of them has a single holiday item in them. They could put multi-paks of the gifty bags, the burbur baskets, and a lot of the other items that are on the marketplace under Frostfell into this holiday bundle category and I believe it would be much more appealing to people and much less distasteful to others.

    *shrugs* Just my 4 punts on the subject, 4 because, inflation you know.
    Kuulei, Blazen, Quillyne and 9 others like this.
  5. Breanna Well-Known Member

    Very nicely put Cyrrena :)
  6. Sigrdrifa Well-Known Member

    The Washington Post put out a good article covering this at the end of November, "Are Video Games Encouraging Gambling? Consumer Watchdog Will Investigate 'Loot Boxes'".
    knightowl, Cyrrena, Rhodris and 4 others like this.
  7. Benito Member

    1. If EQ1 sells $100 and $200 armor appearances, the principle in the same. Businesses can charge whatever they want. Too expensive? Don't buy it, walk away, and you can even laugh at the people who do.

    2. You are reducing your argument to semantics when, in fact, the crux of the matter is that these items are merely cosmetic in nature. If it's cosmetic, it's not even being pushed. Daybreak does not control YOUR desire. YOUR desire is leading you to cognitive dissonance.

    3. The tone of many responses are slightly entitled in a passive-aggressive way. ("Y'all are greedy jerks but please please lower the price for me" instead of just "Y'all are greedy jerks but whatever I'm no fool"). Laugh about it. No one in EQ1 cried about missing the $100 and $200 armor ornaments. People even joked that you could use your All Access discount as a downpayment for a divorce lawyer.
    Kuulei, Dude, Siren and 2 others like this.
  8. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    Amen, absolutely. There are several Frostfell-related mounts, house items, etc., objects out there that ARE holiday themed and related, that could/should be choices for including the Coins (I might very well end up getting 5 more character slots, because, well, me, but I'm not sure which character out of my 98 Gold non-TLE server toons I want the house on :-/). On the other hand, this is probably a trial run for the idea itself, and if it doesn't work out, they won't offer it next year. On the third hand, if it does work out, they might do things like Erollisi Day and Nights of the Dead offers, about the only other holidays I can see this theme working with. If they do, I sincerely hope they think a bit more on how to do it better and more appropriately (and less infuriating).

    On the original topic, there are a number of things that have more than one way to accomplish it; the last couple of times I've Betrayed with toons, I just flat-out bought them the 50 Loyalty Token Betrayal Tokens, rather than run them through the long, tedious, but nevertheless traditional, content-rich usual paths (in going from Evil to Good, I almost always do the "restock the fish in Kelethin" bit. It's grindy, but actually faster and less angsty than "slaughter this list of people for the sake of Good, o bounty hunter/assassin"). On the other hand, both of these methods are free, so...perhaps not a great analogy. :-/

    I dunno; maybe just sell us the Coins outright, in varying price bundles? Ultimate choice as to how to get them on the Marketplace? Put them on the Loyalty Merchant as well, but available for Members only, and in fractional amounts for a lot of Tokens (like, 0.1 or 0.25 Coins for 200 Tokens) or something? The Marketplace would be a faster way to get them, as well as "cheaper" than Token grinding. And being available for Members only would still have revenue coming in. /shrug

    I'm really not sure what all to say about it, other than the only thing I'm even remotely interested in is the new Prestige House (which is brilliant in its concept, I gotta say, after Touring it :D). I'd pay more than the average bear -- er, the average House -- in order to get one (but not $50). Yes, the Snowy house is somewhat holiday-related, but it doesn't have to be; this one definitely is, meaning that even if it were slightly pricier (like, $20 rather than what we usually shell out for Houses), if it were only available strictly for Frostfell, I think people would still be interested in it. ;->


    EDIT: Just a thought: maybe they're doing the Coins as included with stuff that people aren't buying much of and they're trying to encourage purchase of it? Or maybe it's the opposite, and they're pairing the offer with things people buy a lot? I can't imagine why else they're pairing the holiday Coins with non-holiday items. /shrug

    EDIT: Another thought: if they had a sale at the same time (not likely, but I can dream...), it would likely cushion the blow. ;->
    Cyrrena, Rosyposy and Breanna like this.
  9. Siren Well-Known Member

    Not everyone was here when it was sub-only, not to mention that the EQ2 dev team and servers have had overhead since day 1 and they continue to have overhead now. Do you keep working for free for your employer every year because your employer gave you a paycheck three years ago? Does one oil change for your car keep it running forever?

    Seeing jaded, crabby posters making sweeping generalizations while purposefully ignoring the reality of the situation never gets old. :p
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  10. Siren Well-Known Member

    And by the way, although I agree that "holiday bundles" should contain actual holiday items, not to mention bundle discounts, I do happen to want two transfers off IoR, and I love that snowglobe house. At least as a gold sub I get 10% off the transfer tokens, not to mention 500 SC a month, and I get the snowglobe house free-- it worked out great for me.
  11. Tekka Well-Known Member

    The elitism is just precious. Even more precious when the vehement elitists flee the husk of a ship that had begun to sink before it even set sail. (IoR)

    I've said this, ad nauseum, but I'll repeat again for edification since it applies fully to this situation: DBG is a company, we presume their goal is to make money. There are better and worse ways to make money to 'pay the rent and put food on the table' - as is frequently tossed out there by those who will defend any bad actions.

    Once again, DBG has chosen from the 'worst way' column to wring more money out of their customers.
  12. Dude Well-Known Member

    Schadenfreude is an intoxicating drink and you seem to be passing around a large flagon of it over in Feldon's echo chamber.

    Like most things that are addictive it may fill you with a sense of temporary elation, but it leaves you empty and a poorer person for having wasted your time at it. Maybe find something more positive to do with your time?
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  13. Meneltel Well-Known Member

    I hate schadenfreude... which is why I drink it often! So I hate me and my life less! *grins malevolently*
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  14. Tekka Well-Known Member

    Actually, the point of the post you quoted isn't taking joy in someone else's misfortune, though those to whom I allude often indulge in that pastime. I have also pointed out when certain attitudes come back to bite rabid proponents of them on the butt, which seems to be what you're referring to. It's karma, not s

    I'll repeat the point of the post, since it appears to have been missed: There are better and worse ways to make money. DBG has, again, chosen from the 'worst' column rather than the 'better'. It isn't unexpected, given that it's a trend that started before SoE sold out, but it doesn't make it any less disappointing.

    'The devs have to make money somehow' recitation falls flat when a substantial portion of what The Team and Company have done over the past few years has consistently driven customers away, both paying and not.

    Edit: Also, you misused the term 'echo chamber', for that to be accurate, we all have to agree. And we don't.
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  15. Breanna Well-Known Member

    That would be your opinion and a few others but not everyone feels the same way you do. Some of us read it and think the same Dude did.

    And hey if you want to spend thousands on a game then I say go for it, if you want to be the elite of the elite and spend money to get there that is not DBG fault, they put it out there doesn't mean you have to indulge.
  16. Benito Member

    A real estate developer can develop studios and apartments but also offer mansions on the same lot. Car manufacturers offer economy-class and luxury brands. Airlines provide Business Class seating. You get the gist.

    Daybreak is merely offering different options. Chocolate coins are designed for the upper-tier market.

    I am not sure if there is a "worse" way or "better" way to make money. Rather, I only see "ingenious" ways to make money. (As long as it's not fraud or bordering on fraud - i.e. Star Citizen crowdfunding).
  17. Tekka Well-Known Member

    When I say 'better' and 'worse', I'm referring to how it's received by the general customer base, not just the whales.

    The pay to win aspects started under SoE have ramped up extremely under DBG. This falls under the 'worse' heading, as it's not been well received, even by those who have grudgingly paid into it for whatever reason. Those choices have been the impetus for a lot of players to move on as the dollar amount increases each year.

    -- Before anyone jumps in with 'It's not required to play the game'. It might not be, however, if you're playing end game DPS, you're expected to perform, and if you didn't spend the $$ to perform as well as the person who did spend $$, the likelihood that you lose your spot is pretty good. (The current super low population notwithstanding) --

    I agree with you, options are good. Lots of options are even better. 'Options' that exclude the majority of the customer base from content aren't really 'options', though. I'm not talking specifically about the coins. The same thing happened with LoN, folks begged and begged to be able to purchase the items they wanted directly, but DBG decided to go with an almost universally despised lotto system. Now the coins. You get the gist.

    I've always held that it's up to the customer to decide. If you want to pay for it, if you enjoy it and think you're getting the best value for your dollars, and being treated the way you deserve - Have fun.
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  18. michael baker Member

    Just to throw in that imo loot boxes with no indication of the odds of getting a desired item is as close to fraud as you can get while remaining legal. Again imo they are certainly immoral
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  19. Tkia Well-Known Member

    The 'better' way would be to not rip off or **** off your customers in the process. There are plenty of companies out there that can manage this. Sadly SOE/DBG never seems to have been one of them.
    Kheldar, Rhodris, Meneltel and 3 others like this.
  20. Ghostouls Member

    I don't have any squabbles with DBG selling stuff in the Marketplace. If I want it I buy it, If I don't I won't. My issue with this is that they wrapped the coins needed to get things you may want with the purchase of things you don't want or need.

    For heavens sake DBG, just put an honest price on these items in the marketplace and stop hiding it. If people want the items they will buy them. Just feels like you are doing a number on people, so they have to add it all up to see the final cost.
    Kheldar, Kuulei, Finora and 5 others like this.
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