Darathar the unkillable no more

I don't raid, my work schedule is too sporadic, but I think having channelers was an awful idea. They're OP to the point of being completely broken at the moment, and they probably will stay that way at least until AAs. Beastlords too, though less so.

That said, I have a channeler because why wouldn't you? But they never should have been introduced so early.

They will always be OP, and the AA's will make the gap smaller, but a shaman will never ward as much as a channeler intercepts.

Yeah I just meant once we have AAs they won't be OP to the point of being broken like they are now. Coulda phrased it better.

Yeah I am bitter.

I am bitter because I like doing the hardest content this game has to offer, but tuning the content and/or classes in such a way that you MUST use certain classes to clear it, while not taking any skill or practice at all just isn't right and shouldn't be a thing this late into the vanilla release.

I mean they will still always out heal other classes/ be required at current balance so

Yes, it's BS, pure and unadulterated. People have been arguing Channelers would be a bad idea for years. The "we" I am referring to, as Atan mentioned, is the slew of people who actually know how this game works and raised concerns before even the first TLE servers came out. You don't have to be a raider to understand the mechanics of this game, and to know that Channelers were going to completely ruin healer balance at low levels. But OK, since you're obviously new to the game I get why you may not understand why Channelers on TLE were a bad idea.

As for "crying" about Darathar being too easy...well I mean, that's obviously why he was killed so quickly after release, right? Oh wait no, that didn't happen. But keep spouting that same unfounded BS. And also keep frothing about how anyone who brings up legitimate concerns about class balance is a "whiner". It's really original.

I was going to comment on his post about that as well, but I did not know exactly what a certain member said to the Devs after that 1st week of raiding.

Every mob that we pulled that week other than Darathar was ridiculously easy. When raid mobs are dying in under 60 seconds to a raid in half treasure geared and adept spells, yes they needed buffed.

I do not recall anyone, on any forum or discord saying Darathar was one of those easy mobs and needed buffed.

Hey at least the Windstalker Rumbler got nerfed and is now a Heroic mob! So a win for the "casuals".

Why does it have to be casuals vs veterans?

There are severe balancing issues on the server, with content not being kill able without a certain class. A class that heals for the same as THREE fabled geared, good raiding healers would do. If that's not something Mr casual Joe 1 hour a week and the raiders wants to be fixed I just don't know anymore and I am certainly out of the loop in regards to MMO players in 2017.

It was DoV. There were some last gasps throughout the years but all the old school hardcore guilds folded then.

You've completely missed the point of this discussion. There isn't any real disagreement that the mob is broken. The people 'whining' and 'crying' and asking for nerfs are people who have already killed it. My guild hasn't, but I'd prefer no changes so I can kill it as is. This is the same ******** PVPers always have to put up with in any discussion about PVP, this game is full of nasty little turbocasuals who are aggressively intolerant of playstyles other than their own.

Darathar was a mob that needed a moderate buff in HP based on our first pull. If we pulled it now based on its original health we would kill in around a minute and a half, we killed it on stormhold in around two minutes according to my ACT parses, I think that killing the "pinnacle" mob of an expansion that quickly is a bit silly, I do not however think the mob should take more than ten-twenty minutes.

I think that every expansion should have harder mobs, but the mobs gated behind specific weapons shouldn't be the hardest mobs in the expansion, God-king, Lord Vymm,Mayong in inner sanctum, Anashti, should be killable by a decent raid force. Mobs like tarinax, mayong in new tunaria throne room, byzola/trakanon, munzok, master yael should be the mobs that are left for the harder guilds. As far as T5 goes I always thought that spirits of the lost and vision of vox should of been the "harder" mobs of the expansion, obviously T5/DoF are expansions that the game didn't really have raiding direction so its hard to compare them to the later expansions of raiding.

If Darathar had actually been tested in the first place this wouldn't of been a problem however, instead we had to play the nerf game with the developers, instead of one asking for ACT logs/feedback based on the pulls we were taken, we were simply ignored and told that the mob wouldn't nerfed into oblivion in one run, which none of us asked for, we simply wanted it to be killable.

As far as people saying something to get these mobs changed, that is exactly what happened, a member of paradigm sent a PM to a developer saying essentially "why can we clear everything in one raid night with a subpar raid force of people without masters/HQ/prismatics". The question was moreso for the longevity of the server, if mobs were still in that state that they were, every single raid guild would have cleared everything by now and all mobs would of been two groupable by solid players. No where did we ask or imply that the mob should of been at the state they were at after they were all changed, it really takes a calculator to find out that a mob with 100million hp would take over an hour to kill based on our current raid wide.

Why would they not want it to be fixed? They can have one person who can play a class super subpar and have it carry them through tank/spank mobs, what isn't to love?

I mean healer balance was really incredible before channelers, people used to say shamans were super over powered but healers were balanced based on wards/temps. Yes shamans heals went first in the priority and they soaked up majority of the "damage" but templars for example had damage reduction temps, divine guidance, repent, unyielding retribution, equilibrium etc. Wardens had sandstorm, death saves, stoneskins, aoe avoids, rebirth, protective instinct, spirit of druidism, etc. which all helps the tank take less damage which in turn is just as useful as having a shaman.

However when you look at channelers they have both, they soak up most of the damage to a point that other classes quickly become diminished in power, and they have debuffs/buffs to the tank that are incredible. It will get better the later the game goes on as far as how over powered the class is, but they will always be leaps and bounds better heal wise than other healers and they bring incredible debuffs/buffs. It would be stupid not to just stack a channeler and a shaman so you can just have a permament 35% damage reduction essentially (way better than anything templar/warden has!) then have the shaman ward up the other 65% of the damage inc to the tank, not to mention if you get a tank with silly amounts of temps the other healer temps quickly become diminished in power.

In my opinion the intercept should be nerfed as far as how much it intercepts, i'm not sure exactly how far it should go without completely ruining the class, but I would assume around 1/2 - 2/3rds of what it is now would be satisfactory, It will make the class a lot more in line with other classes, of course it can be looked at based on testing between expansions, however based on knowing healer temps the class will be untouchable for many expansions to come.

As one other note, if a nerf does occur to the class please reduce mobs outgoing damage before this happens, looking back to stormhold where necro pets were nerfed before mobs outgoing damage was completely made the server unplayable, it was essentially saying, we removed fighters from the game now go tank the same raid mobs with swashbucklers and let us know how it goes~

I beta tested channelers, and I thought that they were a terrible idea. I remember in ToV the difference between a tank other than a zerker/monk tanking any raid mob with success was having a channeler, I have no idea if they continued to be overpowered past ToV but seeing as how their mechanics didn't change I don't see why they wouldn't be.

I mean he did need an HP buff, when we went in the first night we burned the mob pretty quickly, I think it took us like 20 seconds including the positioning to get the mob to its first heal point. The mob actually did hit for a decent amount of damage and tail swipe was a factor when we first went in as well, I thought that the mob was fine as it was outgoing damage wise at that point however the HP was the issue. When we went in the next week the mob was overtuned to the point that we could beat on it for hours assuming we could live long enough.

It's basically just like real life. Hardcore left people can't handle when people disagree with them. Casuals are basically them. The idea that we want to have challenging mobs and actually try drives them crazy.

As I said before.... We know how to push our buttons better than most people, and that should count for something. Just like better aim in an FPS means you'll probably get more kills.

You've had people, from the first days, spending many hours online and spending a lot of money. All that process, and people clinging to those coat tails, has snowballed to what you have now. Normal people playing this game don't have that benefit.

I'm sure you'd like to believe it's all because you push your buttons better. It's because you have the time in this server most people won't ever have regardless of how long it lasts. It's because people in your guild have paid more money individually than any 10 given normal people care to pay collectively.

Seriously. Get over yourselves.

Looks like he got taken down another peg. Hope to see more guilds getting their Prismatics this upcoming week.

From the way you guys who killed it described it wasn't even a hard fight, just long. So other guilds would of probably killed him before DOF anyway.

It's "easy" if you have the right combination of classes. We had a couple moments where we almost lost it, but we had a solid MT group and decent DPS, so i think in our case we had an almost best-case scenario. Even with that, it still took over an hour, and tbh the hardest part was not falling asleep.

Until they "fix' the prismatics though, I can imagine some people are gonna be disappointed when they finally get it...

Edit: Apparently they've been fixed.

I remember pre dof a lot of non hardcore people had prismatics. Maybe now you just will need a decent raid makeup and moderate level DPS. We'll see if in the next week the "of the shard" title will be common. I don't know if it was ever supposed to be a super difficult fight.

Was he an easy fight on SH when that server started?

1) Majority of us have been in top guilds for years, when Live was the only thign around.

2) Most of us barely play outside of raids anymore

3) Every guild who wants to raid has more than 24 level 50s now and have been raidingfor at least a few weeks. This being the case, they still haven't killed these mobs. If you feel that we don't press buttons any better than anyone else, feel free to come compete with us for one raid and see where you stand.

A lot of you guys think we're a lot more serious than we are. 90% of time in this guild is messing with each other and talking about things not even game related. We're all friends, that aspect is what keeps us playing even though this stuff is all broken.

We want challenging mobs that work properly that take skill and teamwork to kill. If everything is killable for even the worst of guilds, than any guild better than them would be bored out of their minds. We aren't "Professional" players but if you were at the top of a game, you'd want to play against people who were that way as well.

You keep talking about us like you know us. We've been killing end game mobs in this game for the many years we've played it, this isn't the first time its happened. You can still try using that and thinking you're as good as us. Most of our gear is exactly the same as every other guilds, its very very tiny differences yet we still perform better and parse higher and kill more. You can pretend it is w/e you want it to be. 90% of this guild is the same people from day 1, the $ spent on pots doesn't effect our skill level at 50.

The stuff you're saying is only ever said by people that are losing.

Yeah, I don't think he was ever intended to be super hardcore - I think any guild that has a full roster and relatively sane raid comp should be able to kill him. He was definitely over-tuned on FG. I don't know for sure about SH to be honest, since I only played on that server for about 2 weeks, but from my understanding, he was a completely pushover.