Discussion in 'General TLE Discussion' started by jessejames, Aug 11, 2017.
Saw an unguilded necro with his prizzy weapon so Gratz whichever guild he raided with to get it
2 guilds killed Darathar last night, Paradigm (formerly Axiom) and Neustart. Congrats to both. Looking forward to seeing more guilds taking him out.
I still think his HP pool is just obnoxious. It took us 1h15mins to kill him with 22 raiders. I hear the other force that killed him spent closer to 4 hours on it.
That 1 hour 15 mins is one pull. So if u dont wipe once its a hour 15. Im sure a little bit of time could be shaved off but still.
And they had to wipe, they couldn't burn it through all the heal ups.
P.S. Devs please fix this
The script says the mob heals back up to 100% hp at 75,50, and 25. But if you pull it and get it to those % points at all the mob never heals back up, which is a problem because guilds can get it to each respective tier then bypass the mobs mechanics.
Also yes the mob is still dumb, I will be surprised if anyone else kills it and I doubt anyone will kill it from 100-0 including the script heals.
So was the most challenging part the HP pool, heal ups, and maintaining DPS?
Is the MT ability to stay alive without stressing healers where it should be or should it be easier/harder?
The challenging part was the duration of the fight, power management for a fight that length should not be something in Vanilla.
The MT does spike every now and then. With out a Channeler, I do not think it is doable. However, Channelers are here so.... With out a change to Channelers I think the damage Darathar does now is fine. But like others have said the HP pool needs reduced by a fair amount. Personally, I do no think a boss encounter should last more than 20-25 minutes. (Assuming proper DPS and raid make up.)
There are so many tools in this expansion that weren't on the previous TLE. Power management isn't an issue. I'd be happy if they actually fixed the mob's mechanics to stop the healing bypass rather than brute force it's outgoing autoattack damage and health pool - that's very reminiscent of KoS back on DT/SH. In the end of the day though, I'm not the kind of person who sooks until raid encounters are nerfed to the point where I can kill them.
I'm sure come DoF the same people from the 'top' guilds will be crying again, but instead of 'nothing being impossible' the devs will just nerf the encounter repeatedly to appease the mob.
You are right, there are more tools for power management than the last TLE had. However, in Vanilla on SH and DT, no mob took anywhere near 1hr 15 minutes to kill. There has only been a handful of mobs in the history of the game that even came close to that duration of a fight.
The 'top' guilds complained when the mob was literally unkillable, I don't consider it crying, when you are given content to do, you expect it be actually be able to be done. Regardless if it was intentional or not, but Darathar was unkillable for the better part of a month. That was worth complaining about.
He is obviously killable now, 2 guilds have done it. But how many more guilds are going to sit through a hour + long fight? Not many. Drawing a fight out that long is absurd. So asking for the duration of a fight for a Sig quest raid mob to be at an acceptable level is a reasonable request.
I'm sure some will disagree, but I feel his damage output is correct given where healer balance is right now. Cut his HP in half and its probably appropriate for this content.
Fix the script not resetting properly on a wipe, and you could reduce his HP by 60-70% and the fight would be appropriate from my point of view, but if you don't fix the script and you can wipe after a heal event and he wont heal again, then you probably need to keep the hp higher than it should be.
Actually, power management issues and long fights for the top raid mobs were exactly like this at launch. They didn't have that many other tools or creative ways to make these fights challenging. There was also much debate about the stacking of Battlement of the Mind and the amount of regen that could be achieved. Specifically, GU11 did this:
Golden Efreeti Boots now regenerate 5 power per tick. Robe of the Invoker now regenerates 7 power per tick. These regen effects will stack with each other.
An item with the Battlement of the Mind effect now regenerates 5 power per tick. While this effect will stack with either or both of the items above, having multiple items with Battlement of the Mind will not result in additional power regeneration. The effect does not stack with itself.
And yes, Darathar took forever. Just tossing that out there.
I killed Darathar in Vanilla, it was nowhere near the fight length it is on Fallen Gate. Also back in 2004-5 you also got to regen mana when he was flying around. (pre LU 19)
It was about a 25-30 minute fight (with the flight time) back then.
The knock back and heal (75%,50%, 25%) mechanics were not added until LU 19, which was during DOF. So the type of encounter we have now was not done by level 50s.
I suppose I'm comparing what it took the first few guilds that killed him then to what it takes for the first few guilds to kill him now.
Several months down the road, once you're going into the fight with several people that are geared (prismatics, fully fabled, GEBs, BotM pieces, etc.) It goes a lot easier/faster.
Just saying, if you're gearing up your guildies for this and other current end game TLE stuff, the above mentioned items will help a lot. That is, if early content strats remain the same.
For a little nostalgia, I recall that you almost HAD to have your GEBS to go along for some fights. How many people spent hours upon hours waiting for the rock to spawn in Feerrott to get the quest starter for Robe of the Invoker? The BotM nerf I mentioned was a real kick in the teeth to those that farmed those.
Ahh, the good 'old days...
The power regen isn't so bad as long as you bring regen classes and no which HO's to do.
Having a fully Fabled Gear Raid and 24 Prismatics isn't going to cut the kill time in half. However comparing gear and stats from then to now is not really applicable, with how itemization has been done on Fallen Gate.
That's hard to say, since nobody is there yet. However, you may be right about itemization. Potency didn't exist, and we may have other advantages that weren't there in vanilla.
I suppose my opinion would be that Darthar is probably the most important fight atm, so I don't care if it takes 1 raid night to do it.
I mean i think anything over 20 minutes is honestly just overkill, I could see a 20+ minute fight if it had a detailed script that required lots of co-ordination, but just sitting there swinging at a mob with little to no script is incredibly boring. Channelers are also ruining the content.
Yes there are so many tools in this TLE that weren't on the other, but the darathar fight also took an 1/30th of the time it takes to kill now on stormhold. As far as "sooking" until raid mobs are nerfed you're either stupid or trolling. The mob was simply unkillable, if you had pulled it any way you would of known that, however instead you come and here try to act as if we take two pulls and consider a mob unkillable, I'd love for you to show me how we could of killed before the nerfs, because I know for a fact it is impossible to kill with the fail mechanic hitting from the front and a 3+ hour fight with 21k auto attacks is not possible.
This is just the way the game works now, look at DoV on, mobs sat there unkilled for months, because they were overtuned/not tested. Do you really think that people's skill/determination to kill a mob was why they didn't kill all of those mobs? Despite the endless amounts of posts/graphs that were posted as to why the mobs are simply unkillable?
As far as DoF is concered, testing will be done, hopefully with a raid guild who actually understands why mobs shouldn't hit for 200% of a tanks HP without stoneskins/dodges every single attack will test the mobs.
Fix script, nerf channelers and nerf all outgoing damage of raid mobs~
I mean, technically only one guild killed it without the script bug, just saying~
Which is why mobs shouldn't be nerfed following a kill, because then you will say your guild is the only one that killed the 'real' Darathar.
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