Daggerstorm Completely Broken

Discussion in 'Scouts' started by Beet, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. Avithax Well-Known Member

    Was it worth it to swap to Ele? Seems like you lost a bit there.
  2. Sykle Member

    Sitting here laughing at people complaining about daggerstorm and then providing "evidence" from a heroic zonewide where 90% of the zone is aoe trash (the situation where daggerstorm is most inflated).
    Post a single target raid parse from a t1 scout or rogue and let me know what daggerstorm is doing (i.e. the only place dps balancing matters).
    I would do it, but that would be biased.
    Hiza, Snikkety and Mermut like this.
  3. duckster Active Member

    Earth event is a fun one for aoes. If that BL was etherealist, daggerstorm would lower down assuming zone is done in 3-4 encounters. Regardless, I'd take the old version if daggerstorm since it was much better single target. Bards particularly preferred that one as I recall.
    Snikkety likes this.
  4. Beee Well-Known Member

    I dont care about the zones - every ability which makes more than 20% of an encounter/zone dps should be moitored and maybe changed because it might be broken

    And yes, I know stats like 115k potency, 6000 CB and 400 fervor are not easy to balance but it's necessary ;)
  5. Sykle Member

    Well then forgive me, but your opinion doesn't hold any weight. If you think that the type of zone you are in has no effect on what abilities and classes are balanced around, then clearly you have never played this game before, or have been living under the bridge that leads to Deathfist Citadel smoking weed with the Green Hoods.

    The only reason that classes or abilities are balanced is around raid content, because that is the only PvE aspect of the game that is competitive, and holds extreme value on any given expansion. Heroic content is always trivialized by the 3rd month of an expansion (or sooner in some cases). Content that becomes trivialized that quick should never have any balance weight in regards to class mechanics, and if it does, then the person in charge of balance needs an adjustment in his or her career.

    For example: Cataclysm in PoP was nerfed because despite being an AoE, it was doing 25% or more of a warlocks parse on single target encounters. Daggerstorm does nothing close to that for scouts. Would cataclysm, just like daggerstorm, still outparse almost every ability a mage has by a large margin on 8 target aoe encounters? Yes, but you don't see anyone complaining about cataclysm or Rift being "Overpowered" in heroic content, even though it also one-shots every trash mob and tops a warlocks zonewide parse. There aren't meaningful, pure aoe fights in expansions any more for a multitude of reasons, therefore abilities like daggerstorm and unda, which are reduced to 2-4% of outgoing damage on ST encounters, should not get changed based upon those reasons.

    I'm not against changing or adjusting Daggerstorm. I am against doing it for ******* reasons like "its most of my heroic trash parses".
    Hiza and Snikkety like this.
  6. Snikkety Well-Known Member


    I'm still fond of the original design where it was a set amount of damage distributed among however many targets you were fighting
  7. Vasciagio Well-Known Member

    I don't think everyone in the game raids only. If so, I am the exception. I never raid but I still think that my opinion on Daggerstorm matters. It has been one of my best/most used spells. I have noticed that it does much less damage than it had been previously. When grouping; this makes it hard to say, " oh yeah bring your troubie" and it is more like, " ok I guess you can bring your troubie; but who should we get for DPS?"
  8. Snikkety Well-Known Member

    Whoever is saying that is kinda ignorant, troubs can still do really good dps as far as heroics go and their effective dps is higher than most classes due to their buffs and debuffs. It's the same argument as why does no raid just stack 4 wardens, 1 tank and 19 assassins. Utility classes are still super important even if you feel that your DPS has gone down.

    This isn't really related to the thread, just a rambling thought.
    Bludd likes this.
  9. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Of course not, assassins get cranky with mystic buffs ;)
    Hiza and Snikkety like this.
  10. Sykle Member

    I understand that not everyone in the game raids. However, in any game, when you look at balancing an ability or an aspect of the game, you always balance it around the aspect of the game that has the 1) Most attention 2) Most competitive nature or 3) What you consider as the "high end" of gameplay. That means that you don't adjust abilities based on qualities of the game that aren't in one of those three categories. Heroic mass pull 15s trash parses (what all heroics are) are not a good representation of an abilities actual combat damage, and balancing such abilities around that would unbalance so many other aspects of the game.
    Hiza and Revanu like this.
  11. Revanu Well-Known Member

  12. Vasciagio Well-Known Member

    I suppose it is perspective... For me it seems that the decorating in the game has the most attention. There are tons of housing items in the game, every single holiday or live event seems to focus mostly on decorating, and the forums for decorating (Norrathian Homeshow) has the second highest postings; second only to general.

    I get it... DPS can be calculated better when there all more seconds to base it upon. Killing mobs that die within a minute versus mobs that die within an hour will give you more data to work with. However, if a raid geared player is fighting raid mobs; would it be equal to heroic geared players fighting heroic mobs? Is it the ability, the mobs, the runes, the gear, the AAs, the reforging, the Ascensions, the knowledge of spells/abilities. There just seems to be more factors than just the ability itself and maybe it is doing more damage to raid mobs than heroic mobs based on those other factors.
  13. Sykle Member

    Yea but you don't cast abilities while decorating. (or at least i dont, i dont know what the kids are into these days)
  14. Bludd Well-Known Member

    the decorating balance is crucial. if that one chair has too much fervor it could blow up the whole house!
    Avithax, Snikkety, Beee and 2 others like this.
  15. Vasciagio Well-Known Member

    The battle with Shimmer is real!! :)
  16. Geroblue Well-Known Member

    I don't raid at all. Maybe group later on.
  17. Sykle Member

    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    First parse is of my brigand on 8 training dummies for almost 5 minutes. This is the ideal daggerstorm scenario, and it was still only 27% of my parse, not 50+ as others claim. On the second parse, roughly the same duration, which was a single dummy, it was only 5% of my outgoing damage, and 4th on the parse.
  18. Hiza Active Member

    So doing some digging into the last raid we cleared Contested, (2) T3's, (2) T'2, (4) T1's and then (1) T3 Corinav, 9 names total. No trash included, only the add's that may spawn for each encounter. 57.30 minutes of combined encounters.

    First is an example of my typical parse in there:
    [IMG]
    This is the next person on the parse:
    [IMG]
    And the third person on the parse:
    [IMG]
    Assassin: Daggerstorm 169 swings,7% of my total raid-wide DPS
    Conj: Unda 194 swings,7% of their total raid-wide DPS
    Illy: Unda 265 swings, 6% of their total raid-wide DPS

    Ignoring all other stats, buff, group make up, color of the sky at the moment, across the board the top three folks all within 1% of each other using their respective abilities is perfectly acceptable and seems pretty balanced as can be.
    Bludd likes this.
  19. Avithax Well-Known Member

  20. Wish New Member

    Tnx for doing the work - if all 3 players are geared almost idential it confirms the perfect balance of EQ2

    #1 Assassin: Daggerstorm avg 39b - max 139b !!
    #2 Conj: Unda avg 15b - max 62b
    #3 Illy: Unda avg 9b - max 35b

    If this was a funraid the values does not say anything. For a regular raid they speak for themself: At the end of this expansion mages are outparsed from scouts not only by 50%

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