Discussion in 'Zones and Population' started by ARCHIVED-Feaky101, Jun 16, 2012.
How does that toe-jam taste?
Hmm, we killed him this week and didn't notice anything different. Maybe we've been pulling the adds to the correct spot all along and didn't know it.
We ended up successfully timing our wards and death prevents/equilibrium similar to HM version and were able to kill him. It did take a little coordination and practice.
It is nice to know there is a different strategy available. I think we can figure out where to pull him now to limit the AE damage.
Well seeing that it was all but stated word for word what to do ITT I truly hope you can.
Heh, I'm not sure your first option was really a strategy for the encounter, other than 'brute force'.
It did surprise me though how many people I talked to who were killing it didn't actually understand the script but were just brute forcing thru it.
We were also having problems with this encounter. Some really good advice from the more experienced raiders (e.g. slippery) that was very helpful.
Then there were others, like the one above, who used this thread more for the opportunity to make other people feel stupid. 3 different responses with nothing useful to add!
Just because you don't like advice that requires you to do some leg work doesn't mean it isn't useful, it either means you are too lazy or incapable of making use of it.
The first response I made ITT was to someone that made a completely incorrect statement, I told them to look at their logs which has all of the information needed. Then someone who had the same lack of understanding said I called them a liar, the response to that was not helpful, the 3rd reply I simply stated the obvious.
You are in the pool of those that either can't or won't look on their own to see what is happening, I have no control over how that 'makes you feel' and I really couldn't care less, I have no control over what you infer.
Yes slippery gave some very helpful advice, he pretty much told you exactly what to do. If you can get any advice from him you should probably take it. I find it a lot more satisfying regardless of the # of wipes to work through it w/o outside advice but to each his own.
lol, you're awesome. You know that right? Of course you do.
personally i find reading thru act to be a nergins climax.
i think it would be more immersive if fights were based on lore and strats were figured out by puzzling together game lore or fight emote hints/raid zone geometry cues instead of 3rd party number crunchers. or even out of raid research expeditions around norrath, like homework for raid.
thats great you guys can do that stuff with ACT, but i think its an inferior game product on soe's part. puzzles are more immersive and take advantage of game world better.
instead of asking ppl to respond to more natural events, you have fail conditions that are very difficult to even be aware of without creating ACT triggers.
seems like 'trial and error' folks enjoy everyone else being in the dark a little too much.
there is a significant portion of playerbase who would enjoy this. they are the kinds of ppl who are generally wiping raids too. eq2 could benefit from them being more informed and engaged.
That's all nice and dandy, but it's simply politician type talk without substance.
If you don't like it the current state, make sume clear suggestions / ideas, something people can work with, not generic ideas that bring nothing to the table.
Yes it would be nice if my new car could fly to the moon, ya know ? The "what" is easy, but what about the "how" ?
Since the change my casual three group raid pulls him to the left square area as you enter his room and kills two of the four adds and then back to the name. Killing two of the four adds then going back to the name is enough for us to mitigate the AoE.
for my suggestion there would be 2 lines of discovery. [investigation skill and undocumented questing] to learn about personnel (bosses and adds) that would inform you about triggered script events and base abilities (% health, after 20 seconds, has curse, aoe trauma, flurries, etc), and the second line would be an optional [zone puzzle] (writing on walls, scenery, clickable objects) that would inform you about positioning strats and clicking geometry/using items, booby traps set by bosses.
heroic contested dagarn: unbound roamer in contested skyshrine. he's out and about, unprotected. no adds. gives feel for his strength and weaknesses with his base buff package, just toned down. he emotes complaints 'you are lucky my mud elementals arent here' as he dies. casting investigation on him provides his base race (dragonkin: wurm), deity (veeshan/kerafyrm?), and class, it would see thru illusions, and show his vulnerabilities vs damage types. during fight he emotes a hint about an undocumented quest to learn more. it sends you on 'scavenger hunt', starting in a secret library in veeshans peak. undocumened quest reveals info on all 3 dagarn types in order, contested, heroic instanced, and raid. VP trash wurms now emote rare random detail about dagarn. first part of quest you learn his contested abilities (previous training: race and class based stuff), second that he likes bomb laying mud adds, likes to curse someone; and third you learn his mud adds 'blood' will quench the bombs-killing mud adds by bombs obliterates them. each phase revealing a significant detail.
heroic instanced dagarn. in this version you catch him off guard so he is in his element, at home, but not ready. writing on wall identifies which subrace of wurm he happens to be and any metamorphoses or derived traits (undead/lich/lycanthropy/mechanized), investigation on him reveals more explicit details about his castable abilities/ca/spells, and his leadership role within his political affiliation. instance dagarn emotes another hint for the undocumented quest that reveals script from dagarns perspective.
investigation on his adds tell you their base race/class, based on a universal and descriptive nomenclature. (vampiric for any lifetap, nihilist for hurting their own friends on their death-like the mud adds do)
raid instance dagarn. in this version he is waiting, rdy, and has all his abilities queued, boobytraps set. like the end of emperors anathema in jw, there are optional moveable objects, and writing, they work as puzzle to inform positioning and other zone/location related scripts.
one thing i find particularly distasteful about raiding is the vague nature of 'trial and error' 'bugs' and 'brute force'. even if 'joe the raid leaders' strat works, that doesnt mean its not an exploit or that it was intended or its most efficient or anything at all. it doesnt even mean it will work next week.
a lot of the info in question is obtainable thru act, but this layer of abstaction and challenge to figure it out do absolutely nothing for me personally. that data should be very accessible imo. simple stuff like investigate, undocumented quests, and simple reasoning should uncover strats in full.
personally i find reading thru act to be a nergins climax. id like another layer of hand-holding to make it more accessible to me.
To be clear, while I had act running, there wasn't anything I did with that tool to figure out the fight and how the adds worked.
Just killing my raid over and over and going thru the varriables and determining what made an orb disapear and what the resulting damage profile looked like.
But by all means, I do agree, more obvious visual feedback is always better.
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