Cute Kick from Discord

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Priority, Jan 12, 2021.

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  1. Zynt Feldon's sock puppet


    Over my professional life I have built two businesses that I still actively participate in today. One of those is as a consultant for other businesses that are treading water but were once Olympic swimmers, if you will, in their market. I'm currently getting paid a ridiculous amount of money to re-fix a company that I helped turn around several years ago. It's an extremely specialized company that once held about 95% of the market share in their field. They were a world wide supplier for a product that will never ever not be needed. Cash cow goes moo. A few years back people started retiring, some of them had been there since the early 60s and replacements were needed. The owner wanted this one particular person to be the plant general manager but I expressed issues with that person based on two things - 1. This person refused to use email as a means of communication and would not return calls from customers. 2. The owner said himself, "We don't put Terry in front of customers."

    Fast forward 3 years and they now are down to 68-73% market share and falling. That lost share of the business is magnitudes more net profit than the EQ franchise, both versions, make in a year. I have stacks and stacks of printed emails that all point back to two things - 1. We have very little communication from the people in charge. 2. When we do have it we get treated like we owe them something, not like we are a customer who has been doing business with the company for decades.

    Meanwhile 120+ employees, most of them line level production employees, are in danger of losing their jobs if more customers continue to leave. And they will, leave, if things don't change.
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  2. Clintsat Well-Known Member


    Discord is 1000% times better at delivering meaningful information. It's quicker, easier to navigate, less delay and enables sound-bite information to be shared rather than requiring detailed posts. There are downsides as well as many have called out - though, in my opinion, they are drowned out by the benefits of immediate player feedback provided in Discord. If you look at the number of player interactions, helpful responses, etc....the number on Discord far, far exceeds what occurs here on the forums because the system is just so much easier to use.

    Now I know why you might not like Discord, folks there can be pretty rough on trollish comments. It's a rougher playground but there's just so much more value in the discussions there.
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  3. Bludd Well-Known Member

    it tells me he has too much hands-on responsibilities in the game and/or they have too few devs
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  4. Dockter Well-Known Member

    Answer: too few developers and a lack of leadership, IMO.
  5. Benito Ancient EQ2 Player: Lavastorm Server 2004.

    Dreamweaver has stated that Discord will continue to be used in another thread. And I know you value Discord as you are one of the top commentators there. You have a vested interest so I will walk on egg shells.

    I merely suggest that Discord be phased out over 1-2 years.

    There seems to be growing consensus that the forums should be the primary mode of communication. Even people who vehemently disagree with me have voiced support for forum use first.

    Forums have worked on EQ2 before (previous to Discord) and currently (EQ2 Beta and Bug Forums). I have also noticed a major spike in EQ2 dev activity on the forums over the past year. The EQ1 forums have been very effective for that game (proven model); Discord has failed to catch on as much on EQ1. (Well, EQ1 Discord is drowned out by uncouth TLP players).

    The main criticisms of Discord (which runs through games that use Discord and Reddit) is the lack of accessibility, lack of synchronicity or collation, and arbitrary discipline.

    My personal analysis is that some people are apt to treat Discord more like certain politicians on Twitter. (Whether this is attributable to the impulsive interface with mobile technology or Discord culture is still to be determined). Discord therefore includes all of the uncouth behavior, rudeness, and controversy you would find on a social network. While I understand there is the benefit of instant feedback on Discord, spontaneity (and according passions or impulses) may not be conducive to long term community health.
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  6. Benito Ancient EQ2 Player: Lavastorm Server 2004.

    I have been on the EQ2 forums since August 2014 so I write this with experience (and some bias).
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  7. Priority Well-Known Member

    My personal analysis is that you talk out of your rear and just want to hear yourself talk.
    Melt, Daelini, Tkia and 3 others like this.
  8. Clintsat Well-Known Member


    You are making some very big assumptions with very little data. Yes, there are folks on the forums that would prefer more usage of the forums. That said, there are way, way, way more contributors to meaningful discussion on Discord. The volume of messages and question/answers simply dwarfs it to the point that the forums are clearly the lesser of the two mediums when it comes to anything but "announcements" or bug reporting.

    I would suggest that, with the exception of the bug forums - the devs move to phase out message boards as they are somewhat "dated" for 2021 and are clearly leveraged less by the players for dialogue. Your argument is like saying we should stop using text messages/cell phones because you like your landline better.
    Zynt, parissa, Nawtey and 1 other person like this.
  9. Benito Ancient EQ2 Player: Lavastorm Server 2004.


    My argument is analogous to the importance of a court stenographer or maintaining meeting minutes (written transcript/receipt). It may be "old fashion" but it serves a purpose (legalities).

    While everything can be digitized or more efficient (e.g. it would be literally more efficient to cast our election ballots over a phone app), my argument is more nuanced for the sake of more careful and finer deliberation (slower action through a process).

    I've made my points; I will now disengage because people will complain I am derailing this thread.
  10. Priority Well-Known Member

    And yet, you've derailed a thread that does precisely what you want the forums to do. Your clowntribution to the topic has been noted and, just as quickly, been disregarded as useless.
    WhysperWynde, Daelini, Zynt and 2 others like this.
  11. Benito Ancient EQ2 Player: Lavastorm Server 2004.


    My comments have been in good taste. You may disagree with me but it is tangible, constructive feedback.
  12. Priority Well-Known Member

    You keep saying that, and yet, here we are. Every thread with you is the same garbage
  13. Lukasha Member


    Forums give you the time to think before you type (speak). I agree, they have their place.

    Big tech wants everyone to use things that require or work better with what they provide, and to squash out anyone who wants to do elsewise. So Aps that use portable devices with their operating systems, or need a faster connection to work better, are touted/promoted. These means of social interaction are much easier to control, what is allowed to be seen or said. Facebook, Twitter, Discord, etc fall into this category.

    How many times have you tweeted, posted, or typed quickly something, and wished you did not? I have done this on a message board too, but not as much as on "social media". People also tend to post longer and much clearer messages on a Forum, making what they are trying to communicate more accurate, and not as easily misinterpreted.

    They both have their place and use. It is not a case of either/or I think, but a matter of realizing what each offer, and what each really are. We are continually led to think we have to pick one thing or the other, nd talk down what we did not pick.

    IMO
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  14. Nawtey Active Member

    But you won't. As you've shown time after time in the past, you'll undoubtedly reply to this thread within 30 minutes. Heck, even money says you'll probably respond at least once more before I finish typing this. And what points are you talking about, exactly? On page 1 you proposed a 3 strike rule for Discord and that it's part of the developer's workflow.

    On Page 2 you really went wild talking about ban-worthy comments and how Dreamweaver is fair with appeals - out of curiosity, exactly what knowledge of how DW handles appeals are you privy to? I'm 100% certain he does not consult you at any point in the process. You continue on to note that you avoid Discord and specific forums because you think it would cause drama and hinder developer workflow and again promote your 3-strike rule. You also state that people should be more like you and not comment on Discord, etc. - there's a term for that. It's called lurking or in some cases, trolling (especially when you use information gleaned from lurking in comments posted elsewhere.) You then propose it's time for DBG to hire an outside firm to diagnose the root cause of the lag afflicting their portfolio.

    Page 3 brings us to where you apparently bring in posts from the EQ1 message board about VMs in Las Vegas that thoroughly debunked whatever tripe you posted there to bolster your argument here. It also reflects a shift in messaging where you posit Discord is a technical forum where opinions are frowned upon with your 3-strike rule as an afterthought. From your lurking perspective comes the statement that more respect and civility needs to be utilized on Discord since it's a technical forum where opinions should not be entertained. Oh, and of course - that communicating with the devs is a privilege. Hint: It's one of the ways traditional devs find out what's wanted in a product: by communicating with their customers.

    Page 4 contains yet another position, where you state that Discord should be phased out for EQ2. You attempt to bolster this argument by comparing Discord to the use of Twitter by "certain politicians" (a page after saying "without bringing politics into it").

    So you see, you've already derailed it with an explosion of statements. It's like watching the forum version of an episode of Veep, where your response(s) change every time a poll updates. And your anecdotal observations are just that - observations. They do not constitute actual data sets. Flowery language doesn't lend credence to your statements without empirical support.

    It's a New Year and I guess I'm in a good mood. From an objective perspective you've raised good points in the past. Stop trying to earn the approval of people here and just be yourself. You don't have to respond to every post or statement in a thread, including your own. Try this: every time you have the urge to hit the post reply button, go for a 10 minute walk instead.

    N
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  15. Almee Well-Known Member

    I finally broke down and bought the latest FXIV. I haven't figured out how to activate the free character I already made and played, with the bought version, so I may have to start again from scratch. But I'll figure that out if I ever get the time to play lol.
    Fangrim and Pixistik like this.
  16. Menko Member

    So

    pretention: boorishly trying to impress using important sounding words with questionable value to others involved.

    it is not constructive.

    i've never been on discord for anything dev related. the discussions here about it are enough to know that the serious lack of integrity would pose a real problem for me.
    Gelenor, WhysperWynde and Zynt like this.
  17. Luciano Member

    @Benito, you are nothing than troll destroying quality thread. Even it doesnt look from start, in this thread have been said so much about current state of game, and devs should read it and decide about next steps of development to start getting game together to be fun again.

    Your only "constructive" post was how to ban ppl for being frustrated.
    Make your own thread and you can answer your ******** to yourself or other trolls, but stop destroying threads with technical value....
    Gelenor, WhysperWynde and Zynt like this.
  18. Drona Well-Known Member

    @dreamweaver

    Sometime I wonder why lot of people get banned from discord and forums but the biggest troll of them all Benito is still here?

    All s/he does is derail threads and very disruptive in the forums, a classic definition of a troll yet they are still here.
    WhysperWynde, Melt, Zynt and 2 others like this.
  19. Zen Master formless, shapeless

    This makes sense.
    WhysperWynde likes this.
  20. Tkia Well-Known Member

    Discord is totally incapable of delivering any information whatsoever. That is totally down to the aptitude and inclination of the people using it - or lack thereof ...
    WhysperWynde, Pixistik and Zynt like this.
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