Discussion in 'Tradeskill Discussion' started by ARCHIVED-Ardrek, Sep 25, 2012.
Here's a guide that explains how crafting works. http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/Understanding_the_Arts
I'm not sure where you get the idea that you need to make something to get a 'hypro-glow' going before you make something you really need made. Not sure what hypro (assuming you meant hyper?) glow you are referring to at this point. However, as any experienced crafter can explain, you should have no problems with crafting something successfully the first time you try, if you follow the advise that we have provided in this thread. Also, as mentioned, the tutorial is designed to explain the entire crafting process to you, and even giving you a taste of all the different crafts so that you can decide what sounds most interesting to you.
Also, as stated by many, simply because you appear to have chosen to NOT ask for advise in the in-game crafting channel, doesn't mean that you absolutely HAD to leave the game to go to the internet for advise. Speaking from experience, I came into the game 2 weeks after it started. At that point, you learned crafting in a crafting instance, where supplies and skillups were not nearly as abundant as they are now. You could have easily asked guildmates (if you are guilded, which is always advised for new players) or the game channels (1-9 and crafting are good) for advise. The community is actually surprisingly helpful, if you take the time to ask, and you would have probably received all of this information from your server mates.
Of course, the forums are an excellent resource as well, and I never discourage people from asking legitimate questions or voicing suggestions to try improving the game for the better. However, your original comment was very non-constructive, and very unjustified. Whether YOU were able to take the time to do some research or not, there are quite a few resources, both in-game, and online, that plenty of people have located. And since you DID find the forums, I'm assuming you decided to post without even bothering to look over the STICKIED threads, such as http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=449544 and http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=347090 , both of which were guides for new crafters. This leads me to believe that you decided to simply complain, and troll, and makes someone else's comment about this being a joke thread into a legitimate one.
You will only have green numbers floating up from the crafting table if you still have turned on.
Personally I turned off all the combat number garbage about the time of my first raid, 6 years ago.
But as above the crafting table has a cycle and it is easy to get the timing such that you can hit 3 buttons, then wait for the "woosh" signaling the advancment of the bar. When the "woosh" sound comes so does a icon that you have to counter.
Immediately hit the 4th, 5th and 6th icon. You need to time it so the "4th button" one finishes just before you hit the 6th.
That way you get the maximum progress.
Wait for the "woosh" and hit the appropriate icon to counter it (if one appears).
If nothing appears at the "woosh", hit 4th, 5th and 6th again in a quick sequence.
Now if you notice that the green bar is starting to drop dangerously low (less than half of the bottom bar is gone) then instead use the 1st, 2nd and 3rd buttons to push up the durability.
I use the 3 righthand buttons to get the product made fast (inrease progress), but switch back to the left 3 if I am losing durability.
The timing with the "woosh" is the key, if you mistime it you'll have a button queued up and then don't have a chance to counter the effect.
There is a tutorial for that, right in game. No need to hit the internet to get the basics. The harvester trainer that gives access to the first crafting quest. When you first click the anvil in the quest the mender gives, there's a big pop up that gives you the raw basics you need to start crafting. You are then directed to the person in the city you need to go to for the rest of the crafting tutorial. If you skipped the tutorials in the starter area, that's the basis of your problem.
The link given to from Wiki is basically the 'min/max' version of crafting. The 4 bars they are saying you can mostly ignore are just basically close ups of the 4 bubbles in the top blue bar. In some combines those bars can yield a product (though sometimes fewer than if you complete the last bar), and sometimes it's faster/better to just stop when you finish the first. Thus it's not really a waste to have them.
I don't know what you are talking about with your 'hypro-glow' comment (what does dogfood have to do with anything?). I can only assume you are talking about doing combines to get the +skill buff. I personally never bother. It pops frequently enough if you are actively crafting that it is a waste of time to craft things especially to get it. In the end the buff doesn't make THAT big of a difference either.
what's this 'hyper/hydro-glow' your talking about?
and what's your crafter level, compared to what your trying to make? if your level 1 and trying to make level 5 items...yeah that might pose a problem. just like a level 1 player trying to beat up a level 5 mob. your skill levels won't be high enough to make it easily, and you can run into the 'critical failure' texts that while you may not have done anything directly, do show up. (like a mob landing a spell or crit hit on you).
other then that, yes the craft tutorial in game (you can find them at the major crafting faction buildings at the very least) explains to you exactly how the system works. you have to actually read the NPC text, but it's there. and this system is almost infantile simple compared to it's original inception that requires sub-combines and components, not all of which your chosen proffession could make.
If I had to guess, I think OP means "insight" when refering to hypro glow. Just a guess but I can't imagine it being anything else. I could go on to tell the OP that many, like myself ignore the numbers at the table (I can't even see the table most times). Most of us find our own pace. We did the tutorials and then practiced. But that being said, I think good advice may be going to waste here. OP is either to set in his belief on this or is trolling. Either way, the crafting community still tries to help. Good for us and too bad OP is going to miss out on this part of the game.
So what level crafter are you?
The tutorial takes you to level 10, with those few quests and those combines are almost impossible to fail on.
You can walk away from the combine and you get a final product, almost.
Your not applying yourself and your missing alot. The best way to ask for help, and avoid the inner troll in most of us, especially those of us that actually play trolls, would be just to ask for help - not levy insults at that which you do not understand. My 9 year old has been crafting since he was 5 and he recieved no special help from me - alot less than what you ahve already recieve in these forums from the crafting community which is bar non usually quite excellent and helpfull on every server. As we play(ed) [he still does] on Nagafen I told him early on that its a dog eat dog world and that if he wants to play he better figure it out becuase no one is going to do it for him. He did so. Your not applying yourself and your missing alot.
Read the UI. Pay attention to the tool tips. Maybe make sure the tool tips are up and read them every time you press the button. Pay attention and press buttons one at a time and see what happens when you press those buttons. Make mental or written notes. Try pressing them in different sequences. See if good or bad things happen. What happens to your mana when you press some of the buttons but not others? Explore, learn, do. Its not hard - you, the end user, must pay attention and learn what is going on. All this can be done with the in game tutorials which have gotten far better than the original island crafting (which I miss) - "resins/tempurs for sale anyone?"
I have no idea what a "hypro-glow" is, nor do I understand why you think nobody could have figured out how to craft without going to the 'Net. It's not rocket science, any more than is any other part of this game.
I play a total of 3 games . . .all with very different tradskiling techniques. You want JOKE crafting? Play WoW (World of Warcraft)! There you can hit one button and walk away from your computer and go make coffee, a sandwich, go tot he bathroom and go watch a movie. Whe you come back you will have all your items crafted, no burning, no fails no . . . .challenge.
Lets move on to he newest game out htere, GW2 (Guild Wars 2). Unlike GW1, they DO have crafting, I is a bit more difficult because there you have to kind of figure out your recipes yourself. You think ours is difficult or a joke? Try putting ingrediants together thatt logically should make something and be told that it is TOO HIGH for you to make.
Go craft in those games first and then come back. Yes ours may be easy. . . .but it is not THAT easy. . . .there is still a challenge to it. I really like the crafting here and it is the crafting ha brings me back. . . every holiday season!
NOTD, Frostfell, Erollisi Day. . .here I come!
Crafting is easy.
There is a little to learn - use the keys proactively - but the tutorial teaches that.
Just drumming your fingers on 4,5,6 without paying attention will succeed over 90% of the time (perhaps 80% below level 20).
If you pay attention you can be a bit faster and even more reliably successful. (I can't always be bothered)
There are plenty of things for boosting the crafting process (which are not required and I don't beother with).
That used to be true. I liked burning through the 1-9 stuff, largely because a lot of my lowbie alts could use what I could make (house items and boxes/bags are always cool!), but I really wanted to get to level 20 as painlessly as possible. I've been in EQ2 since the days of subcombines, so I know completely what a PitA it used to be, complete with trying to track down all the various skills you needed to have pre-set up somewhere on a hotbar. At least making the subcombines helped you level up... Then came the time when we got an extra XP boost for the first time we made something (a hold-over from the days when Pristine was the top level of quality, was dam' near impossible to achieve, and merited extra XP if you could do it). This was wonderful, but because the Sages got "too many recipes," it was not only yanked from all of us, but I can tell from my own experience that crafting in the 10-19 levels now, especially with my lowbie alts, seems to have gone the other way, nearly punitively; those of you at 90+ might not see how nasty it can be now. Yes, I'm glad I'm not having characters literally die at the forge any more (in the subcombine days, that was a real hazard), but sheesh. If I'm careful and watch what I'm doing, hit the 4-5-6 buttons every time the success bar advances (the "Durability" keys [1-2-3] have, at least for me, always taken Durability AWAY every time I've used them [though they could be useful if complications reared their ugly heads]; times were you could do 4-5-6 fast enough to not lose too much Durability), and keep aware of complications and solve them quickly, I shouldn't be wasting crafting materials as often as I am. I used to wonder at the exorbitant prices for some low-level materials on the Broker (especially 10-19 ["hard metals" 1-19, due to their relative scarcity]); now I understand.
I have rhythm; I understand about the 4 seconds; I've been doing this since, indeed, the days of subcombines; I watch for when things are progressing forward (or in reverse, nowadays); I've had a lot of help from my friends, the Internet, and the tutorial stuff; and I too am getting frustrated at low levels. I had recently made some new alts and trotted them off obediently to do their 1-9 tutorial, and was quite unpleasantly surprised at how much things had changed. Times were when the only crafting profession that sucked was Provisioner (2 products/make, instead of 3-4 + for other stackable items, got very old very quickly...and yes, one could EASILY make one's fuel costs back. I've yet to see any food/drink on the Broker that wasn't priced at least 10 times what the fuel would've cost. The only reason I have Provies is to not go broke buying food and drink that's actually worth anything [and because they get great house items!]). Nowadays, I have literally watched my fourth Durability bar get arbitrarily taken from me, regardless of what I did, on a regular basis. I've seen the chat window say I had a "Critical failure!" and yank away a large chunk of Success, even though the complication button went green and it had just finished telling me I'd correctly solved it. One should have the option of putting AA's into tradeskilling, yes; one should not have to devote 30-40 of them (as a previous poster remarked) in order to get the same success rate as before (even after the first-ever XP bonus was removed). The only way I can get through the purgatory that is now 1-19 any more is to be a member of a guild that has a materials vault and a lot of patience with my lowbies.
1-9 is trivial with the tutorial... I'm not sure what sort of bad luck you've been having, but I've never failed on any of the tutorial combines. Add in the New Halas crafting quests once you hit 10.. and the work orders they've added that you can start at 10 to get you through the gap between those quest and 19... Starting crafters definately have a fairly good time of it. Yes, low level crafting can be a bit painfully slow after you've gotten used to 90s.. and you have to use 1,2,3 instead of 4,5,6 quite a bit at low levels, but it's actually less painful then it used to be.
The better craft system. In EQ2 you don't just click on one button and go washing your tooths.
I do 6-5 to hurry the blue bar, until the bottom green bar is down to half, then 3-1 to make the green full again. Repeat.
It is true now. It didn't use to be.
I too have been crafting since the days of lots of subcombines, though after forge deaths were removed.
Pristine was easy to achieve even then once you started using the abilities pro-actively, but it was made easier when Rok came out. That was when it became possible to craft without paying any attention and get 90%+ pristine.
I have tried taking a alt up from 1-20 recently, and yes it is a little harder than at higher levels, but it is still very easy.
After getting 10 (oops, forgot, one dinged recently, so 11) level 92 crafters, and having 4 others working their way up through the apprentice recipes before going to the next tier, I found that the level 1-9 crafting on the newer crafters was a little more difficult than I expected. I had to use more of the durability buttons (1-3) than I was used to. However, there was an easy solution to that, if the toon was level 10+. Simply lock aa, get 40 points saved up, put them in all but one spot in your tradeskill aa selection. That helps quite a bit, taking advantage of the durability aa can make a huge difference. Not sure how things will be handled with the expansion coming out, I've heard tradeskill aa is going to be handled differently at that point, but the advise is valid until then.
Several good writeups in here about proactively using your buttons. I missed that part in training in game and leveled to around 80 without realizing that and I was really hating crafting and because buttons 1-3 and 4-6 looked the same, I thought they were, it never occured to me to look at the descriptions. I was failing at probably a 1/3 of the rush orders and the rest I was barely finishing with a few seconds remaining. Any failure at all meant starting it over from scratch and just reacting to the buttons didn't always guarantee success, which frustrated me and in the back of my head, I kept saying to myself, I must be missing something here, it shouldn't be this hard. I mostly did the double orders that took nearly twice as long.
Unfortunately, when I started searching the internet to see if I could find out 'secrets' about tradeskilling, my searches really didn't turn up much, the descriptions I found were very old and things had changed since the old days and they just didn't explain it very well. I wish I had ended up here a long time ago.
Once you know you can use all the buttons proactively and that they do different things, it becomes SO much easier and I quickly leveled up a 2nd crafter and don't mind helping my wife with hers. Finishing the timed rush orders usually leaves me with 4+ minutes remaining.
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