Consolidated Monk tank issue thread

Discussion in 'Monk' started by ARCHIVED-GangsterFist, Feb 3, 2005.

  1. ARCHIVED-Coterei Guest


    Did you not read where I said this is where a monk should be, except with more DPS and less Misses? And even though the monk has less DPS the fights on the SK took longer because he has a slower swinging weapon, with larger average hits, with the monk hitting very fast with lower average hits. In the same span of time the monk took considerably more damage anyways. And remember as well, that the SK was NOT using Demonstration of Faith during the test you are referencing, making his DPS slightly higher as time in the fight was not wasted casting the wards, while the lower then average DPS's on my monk were from using Mend. Remember as well that the monk takes more hits over the same time span then the SK as well, and the SK also has a minor heal with one of his combat arts. The comparisons really do need to come in though when both the SK and the Monk are using all their defensive skills to accurately measure how much Damage over time they take, with the SK clearly shining in that department, taking between 1/2 and 1/3 of the damage dealt to the monk. The majority of the damage also comes within the first few seconds of the encounter where the mobs unleash their barrage attacks, which seems to have roughly a 2 min recharge.

    One more thing too that my parser doesn't show is an Average hit on the monk is roughly 95 points of damage, the average hit on the SK is 40 points of damage, this combined with the fact that the monk is more likely to be hit then the SK, means that the SK is overall the better choice to have as MT then the Monk.
  2. ARCHIVED-Invic Guest

    Good rule to live by I have found :) Never ask someone to do something you yourself is not willing to do.
    Guess that is what parser data looked like I could of swore it looked alot diferent this is the same type of post most put up and its accepted as you can type in anything when posting parser info. Guess some aren't aloud to be trusted in their word :) Anyway parsers are not 100% accurate and get changed and buggy at times. Personal experiences are what people want. Wish people give up on the parser data BS lol
    As for GFs request one thing I know is the spike dmg on yellow^^ after 40+ is really nutso. Lots of hits take ya to a bub of life of a combo of 2 hits at the same time. Going to have to compare my deflection ratings grp buffed and not now never really looked that closly at it thanks for the info. I did reroll a brawler on free slot to test at low level not a big difernece there it seemed. talk with alot of monk guildies. ones in 20s have good and bad days mostly good ones. In the 30s there tends to be alot more bad days then good. aka get beat down and do pathetically. 40+ which is my area its hard to pin down but specials seem to always land on me. I do avoid a decent amount of normal swings but seems the specials hit in the 90% area. Since mitigation on a brawler is not so hot the dmg inflicted is massive causing the spike dmg to be near death if not death alot. I tend to insta die as in lose majortiy of my hp in a 1 sec span when 1-2 normal hits lands and a special which added up in that time span splats me pretty hard. I have not as of yet found a good way to get that in check with buffs healing cycles what not. Any info or ideas to test let me know. Till then Ibe the chalk outline in most camps hehehe
    Message Edited by Invic on 02-06-2005 05:19 AM
  3. ARCHIVED-Mamaseeta Guest


    Go back and look at how many reposts you are getting.

    Second what is the delay of the weapons used?
  4. ARCHIVED-Babayaaga Guest

    Statalyzer logs please. Unless you can provide some numbers, I'm afraid anything you're saying is heresay.
  5. ARCHIVED-Mamaseeta Guest


    Hearsay is someones based on the reports of others, sence my observations are a first hand report it is not hearsay. Hearsay would of been if I said, I red on the web that guardians take damamge just as well. The damamge log programs are all flawed in teh damamge they reported. My test was simly a test on how the two types took dammage.
  6. ARCHIVED-Leivantes Guest

    What is the name of your Guardian 'friend'?

    Also - there are other factors to consider, as I'm sure you know. For example, how long did it take you to kill the turtles compared to how long it took him? Just saying 'we timed it to see how long it would take to get to half health' isn't enough. Did you solo the turtles? Were you grouped? How long DID it take you to get to half health? How long did it take the guardian to get to half health? Please post those numbers on the kills you made over the course of those two+ hours. What was the gear of the Guardian (and weapons) - what was your gear and weapons? What percentage of hits landed on you and for what average damage? What percentage of hits landed ont he Guardian and for what average damage?

    I think the fact is, you have no credibility on these forums. You have come up with a conclusion immediately when this update was released, calling everyone else a liar and demanding proof and numbers, and nobody beleives you with these feeble attempts of showing yourself as credible. You're a hypocrite for expecting us to take your word for anything while accusing everyone else of being liars and complaining for the sport of it.

    Again, you have no credibility here - and I'm sure most of us agree that these experiences you claim happened are invented attempts at proving a point that has already been disproven again and again.

    Let go of the dream... you're not a tank anymore.
    Message Edited by Leivantes on 02-06-2005 11:18 AM
  7. ARCHIVED-Gaige Guest

    Let me get this straight. You ask for proof all the time, but say parsers are flawed. You provide proof in the form of Moorgard links and saying that you and a guardian take the same damage in EL without any hard data (which is wrong because he has mitigation and you don't).
    So what proof are you asking for if parsers are broken which is why your proof never includes any?
  8. ARCHIVED-AzoGrey Guest

    Mama reminds me of Baghdad Bob :smileyhappy:
  9. ARCHIVED-GangsterFist Guest

    Well, I tanked in sol eye doing quests and such from top to bottom had no issues no downtimes and 1 cleric for a healer. However, I had a level 50 dirge and a level 50 troubudar in my group, which probably made that difference.
  10. ARCHIVED-Invic Guest

    I am thinking we are going to need a Crime lab a super computer and live video feed to ever fulfill the lofty prereqs of Mamma I am now taking donations will start building a super computer tomarrow and call about a CSI team on monday. :)
    Couldn't resist :)
  11. ARCHIVED-Leivantes Guest

    Stop it, you'll make him cry. Gnomes have feelings too, ya know..

    Notice, however, his complete disapearance when asked to produce anything .. even as simple as the 'name' of his guardian friend.

    Is anyone suprised?
  12. ARCHIVED-Babayaaga Guest

    You are only correct to a point. You see, being that these are your observations, to you they are not hearsay, but because you have failed to provide any evidence whatsoever to back up your claim, to the rest of us your account is hearsay.
    Whether or not damage report programs are flawed, I dare say that having no data whatsoever than stating your claim on an account that may or may not have happened about "what appeared to be the case", is indefinately flawed. Anyone can "say" they've done something, unless you have data to prove it happened, it is hearsay.
    Finally, as others have already pointed out, for anyone to believe your account requires you to have credibility, and indeed, in this thread alone I'm afraid you have lost that.
    I am not sure what you are trying to achieve with your reports, tests and accounts, but I do have to wonder why someone would spend 2 hours repeating a series of tests with another player, then is able to record results from several "tests", yet has no logfiles, no actual data to provide. Please, share with us the numeric material you recorded and used to come up with your summarization of a 2 hour test?
    Where's the beef?
    People here are trying to provide information to either prove or disprove, with hard evidence, the existance (or lack thereof) of class design issues. Unless you have any hard data to provide, we would all appreciate it if you could please, kindly, S T F U.
    Thx.
    Message Edited by Babayaaga on 02-06-2005 06:32 PM
  13. ARCHIVED-Morrizar Guest

    I'm lvl 35 and these have been my experiences (All with guildies, all using Teampspeak, all players who have been grouping together for a while, know their [FaarNerfed!] and know each others play styles):
    Lvl 35 Monk, 33 Mystic, 33 Ranger (Testing at the entrance of RE)
    Green^^ - Slightly harder than before but OK.
    Blue^^ - Much harder, but able to do these reliably
    White^^ - Able to do, but quite alot harder, GF who plays the mystic sitting beside me going [FaarNerfed!]?
    Yellow^^ - Dropped it to 2bubbles of health, had to zone as healer was OOM and so was I, ranger LOM

    Lvl 35 Monk, 33 Mystic, 33 Ranger, 39 Illusionist, 38 Templar (Testing at Blightrats in Rivervale)
    Yellow^^ - Able to do these, although healers paying alot more attention, would most likely be unable to do these without the Illusionist's power regen
    Orange^^ - Able to do JUST
    Orange^^ + Yellow^^ add - Illusionist kept add messed entire fight, kept mana regen on us entire fight, I died and we had to evac when healers ran OOM.

    COMMENTS:
    While you can argue that this is reflects the con colour of the mob, this isn't how the Plate tanks are doing it. There was a lower level group to the side of us, with a 35 SK tank (noone over 36 in their group). They pulled the orange (it's a fairly common named), dropped it and I watched them pull immediately after.
    Basically either all the tanks need to be brought in line with this (the difficulty I have tanking these seems to reflect their con colour/message), or we need a big repeal of this nerf :S. You can babble on about how this is how the game is meant to be played (con colour/message), but if some guy in 8inches of steel can join the group, tank yellow/oranges without trying and then pull reds for a bit of risk, he's gonna be the tank.

    >Tonight I will try to get some logs<
  14. ARCHIVED-Bibe Guest


    surely the more pertinent question is what is YOUR name (mama's) and what equip he is using.
    After all the posts here I am still suprised that Mama is constantly making accusations and troll posts yet noone seems to know where any of the credibility of his posts come based merely on experience, let alone parsers, logs screenshots etc.

    Frankly I wish they would include an ignore feature so that I dont have to read any more of mama's posts.
  15. ARCHIVED-Aliaswave Guest

    Its seems that some monks are doing ok and other aren't. I was in a group with a 24zerk, 24ill, 21mystic 23MONK(ME)and the zerk was the main tank and we were fighting cents the zerk could set there and get pounded by a (yellow) revenant soldier^^ took maybe 50% damage before we killed it.Then I asked if I could be tank for a while so I pulled a (yellow) revenant soldier ^^ heres how it went down.

    a revenant soldier hits YOU for 179 points of crushing damage.
    a revenant soldier's Crushing Blow hits YOU for 458 points of crushing damage.
    a revenant soldier's Crushing Blow hits YOU for 440 points of crushing damage.

    In 3 hits almost killed me as before the patch I was able to tank as well as the zerk.
    Now I'm just the sidekick.

    My AGI is 70 and all of my equipment is orange.

    I think the patch was hit and miss I think it just needs to be tweaked.
  16. ARCHIVED-Babayaaga Guest

    Just another lil tidbit I'd like to add...

    My Monk wears the same armour as my Fury. In fact, the Runnyeye Quest armour BP and leggings yeilded the exact same item for both characters, right down to the name.

    How does it feel to be a Tank in healer gear? Well, when Agility actually worked, and I had some faith in our "damage avoidance" skills, I used to think it worked fine. Now that I have lost some confidence in what feels like broken damage evasion skills, and useless inherant avoidance skills now that agility is broken...

    Think I'll take some comparison logs of both Fury and Monk when Fury hits 34. Of course matching stats considering different buffs... perhaps i'll have to solo some things buffless.
    Message Edited by Babayaaga on 02-06-2005 10:17 PM
  17. ARCHIVED-Coterei Guest

    Had a really good group in Varsoons last night, it was me my 24 monk, a 26 guardian, 25 Shaman (sorry forget if he was a mystic or defiler,) 27 Wizard, 30 Templar, and a 24 ranger. We went down to the golem halls on the way there in the lab area I think it is the Wiz accidently ae'd getting aggro on a loam boil, orange ^^ to me, the guardian was tanking 2 Yellow ^ and one Orange ^^ that had added from the ranger walking behind the mob, so at that point I layed my taunts down on the boil figuring I'd be the best person to handle it given the situation, well it wasn't pretty, constantly spiking between 20 - 80% of my health, both healers were chain healing me, and the Guardian was only getting reactives from the cleric tanking 2 groups. As soon as the rest of the group had the other mobs down, I told the guardian to start taunting because I was oop, mend was used, healers were both below 10% power, and I was sitting at 80% health, with the mob at roughly 60% health, (at least I could dish out some damage on it while I tanked it,) as soon as I hit enter on my chat I was down to 10% health, which took all of a second to type I had to use feign, at that point the guardian got aggro, and the healers didn't need to heal him for the rest of the fight.

    Then we got into the golem area, the 26 guardian was tanking level 33 mobs, while the fights took a long time, only Me, the wiz, ranger and guardian were oop at the end of the fight, the Shaman and Templar were both at 50% at the end of the fights. At one point during our camp I had gotten aggro from a level 30 golem, 3 levels below the ones the guardian who is 2 levels higher then me has been tanking, during the short time I had aggro, I put up phins and had already had staggering stance and brawlers stance up since I was the backup tank, about 20 - 30 seconds the priests both used 25% power to keep me alive. My AC at that point was only about 100 less then the tanks btw, and the priests only used about 10% power healing the guardian over the same amount of time on the level 33 mobs.
  18. ARCHIVED-Krikket Guest

    I was in Zek last night and group was....29 pally, 29 clr, 27 chanter and 35 monk(me). I was helping the others do the Greenhood quest. Started of my taken them to the tracker, got jumped buy the spoters (orcs x3 all green to me) and I got owned. clr was 0 power after the fight. Told pally to tank and he was out tank'n, to me what was green to him reds, and clr was 50% after we got jumped again, this time by 5 greens, they were red to him. Now if you do the math that is a pally 6 levels lower then me out tank'n me. That is not right in in way shape or form.

    SOE please fix this.............................PLEASE!

    Krikket Ashen
    35th gnome (NERFED) monk.:smileyindifferent:
  19. ARCHIVED-RioRio Guest

    I'm signing in on the, "we need to be fixed" side.

    It's like EQ1 all over again.
  20. ARCHIVED-Invic Guest

    Yeah I have had alot of similiar expereinces. The spike skill attacks shred ya on those. Friend is a 35 pally and we debae if he or me at 41 should tank often when working on some quests. Want to talk about embarrassing.