OK folks. I did it... call me crazy, but I did it. I may have started it, but I'm being a little lazy about it. I'll manage it, but I need you all to help me update it. I'm going to do my best to go through and update Salmastryon's very outdated issues list. I may (and probably will) miss some stuff so please post what you feel needs added and what was fixed that I missed. What have I done?!?!?!? --I will look to add more items from the previous post and from the What do the dirges want? thread.-- Problems Scaling of Daro's and Rianna's lines -The scaling of these lines have lost a great deal of significance. Upgrades of these spells cost more power for a small improvement, this problem will get worse as the level cap is increased. This also often results in a lower level version of the buff/debuff being superior to a higher level verison. Examples of the problem(Rianna's T6 AD1 and T5 M2 do the same thing with differing power costs. Daro's T4 Master II is superior to T6 Adept III. ) No change here still a problem despite the Update note. Issues Run Speed The hot topic at the moment. Bard's are no longer the King of speed. Other classes with only five Achievement Point into an EoF achievement can be as fast as if not faster than a Bard. It is really discourageing that a Ranger can increase Pathfinding from 16% to 46% with only 5 AA. For a bard to match that speed they have to spend 8AAs to go from 34% to 46%. And while it is cool that Harbringer's sonnet can stack with their Pathfinding resulting in the group out of combat speed reaching 58% going much faster than it ever could with just a bard, it is also extremely discouraging. SoW can also be upgraded to being 45% with only 5 Achievement points. This spell can be casted in or out of group on multiple people. Bard's aren't asking for these other classes to be nerfed we just would like our run speed to not cost as much to get equal or beter than others. The most obvious fix for this issue is to add our Selo's upgrades at level 55 and possibly 69. The reasons stated for the level 55 upgrade being removed in late DoF beta was to prevent Bards from going faster than the fastest mounts. Obviously this is not an issue anymore due to the fastest mounts being faster and since other classes are being handed run speeds significantly faster than 34%. Whysprr's thread on this topic is here. I also strongly encourage sending in /feedback on this issue on a regular basis. **The AA line in TSO doesn't help since virtually no dirge will use it** Fluff/Fun Spells:-Need to be improved or changed. See Whysprr's excellant suggestions here. There is also a whole thread discussion possible improvements here.Rez: -While some of us are evil, a lot of Dirge's are rather nice folk if a bit gloomy at times. So it is disheartening and rather aggrevating to see a non-grouped person dead and not being able to resurrect them without having to invite their group to raid with yours. Wail of Horror and Dissonant Requiun: -These spells are not on many Dirge's hotbars, because as they are currently they are useless. Either combine them and make it a blue AOE that does knockdown and damage. Or add damage to Wail (adjust casting time) and reduce Dissonant's casting time to match its damage output/ increase it's damage to match its casting time. Rebuffing: -With our core buffs and all of our AA buffs it can take some time and effort to get our buffs back up and running after a wipe. Our buffs that do not require a concentration slot should be instant cast. Casting times on these buffs are simply frustrating to the player and serve no real purpose for gameplay. Add long recast timers if there is concern with toggling these for whatever reason. Additional issues (edited) From Kall's post on the What do the dirges want thread: Bump timer is different than Grim Strike making it difficult to time eficiently. -Either add an enhance bump line somewhere, or even an enhance bard tree attacks in EoF/Shadows AAs. Neither of our best 2 abilities (Scream of Blood and Banshee) are on any of our AA trees.-Assassin's get a 40+% increase to their best CA, Death Mark yet our AAs do not enhance some of our best abilities. Sacrificial Oration costs 5 points to remove the stifle. -Assassin's Killing Blow costs 1 point for the FULL Deathblow proc. Battle Cry should be self castable. -There is clearly no benefit to cast it on yourself when raiding or grouping, so this only comes down to a hindrance in solo play. -Fix through AA trees or just fix outright as it is now it isn't on any Dirge's Hotbar. Intoxicating Notes does not proc on ANY attack. Disease Mastery affects less than 50% of our total disease damage. -Needs to affect all disease based CAs/Spells For the third expansion in a row, are our best AAs are passive buffs instead of active abilities. -Give us more buttons to push... only getting more buffs/enhancing buffs is boring. **See Kall's post below for AA tree suggestions** Raid Set Gear: Most of the Raid Set gear issues have been fixed but it is still missing +slash/pierce - Shoulders - Drop +focus, add +slash - Helm - Drop +focus add +slash (or pierce) Fixed Most of our TSO Raid set issues have been fixed. All our spells and CAs cast on the move (except Bow Attack). Okay there it is. Give me your feedback! What has been fixed, what is now broke. What issues face us today! As others have said, not all of these need to be fixed in whole since it could definately overpower us, but we dirges feel that some of these issues should be looked at and fixed for the good of the class. Edited with Whysprr's suggestions. Added some of Kall's issues. Updated with more of Kall's stuff and made somewhat more current. (05/23/09)
Just quote Kalls post in the What Dirge's want thread about TSO, and thats the updated list. Also is Tombs really an issue since EoF?
-Since this is a new thread, I think putting in the 'fixed' category is probably more confusing than it's worth. -In addition to the Wail of Whatever (AOE KD), the Requiem line (closed AOE) is also lame to the point of pointlessness. I certainly think that goes in the current issues list. A sensible solution would be to combine them; add the damage and power cost of the requiems to the Whine of Weirdness spell to get one decent spell instead of two crummy ones. -Thank you, thank you, thank you... Whysprr
Androw@Najena wrote: Yeah I plan to use much of it. He had a lot of great info in it. Androw@Najena wrote: I don't know... I didn't think so, but it was in the original post so I just cut and pasted it in. I'm looking for feedback to update this.
jadsded wrote: I think due to the age of the old thread we would have been better off just starting a new one that was just a cut and paste of Kalls post with maybe a few addations.
These are what the current Dirge problems are: Questions: Where is enhance Bump in the Bard Tree so Grim Strike lines up with it? Why do Assassin's get a 40+% increase to their best CA, Death Mark, and neither of our best 2 damage abilities (Scream of Blood and Banshee) are even on the AA list. As a matter of fact, they have yet to appear on any of our AA trees. Why is Dissonant Requiem's casting time still 2.5s for only ~1K AE damage? Why does Sacrificial Oration cost 5 points to remove the stifle when Assassin's Killing Blow costs 1 point for the FULL Deathblow proc? Why is Battle Cry still not self castable? There is clearly no benefit to cast it on yourself when raiding or grouping, so this only comes down to a hindrance in solo play. Why does Intoxicating Notes not proc on ANY attack? Why does Disease Mastery affect less than 50% of our total disease damage? How come Lanet's Scream doesn't benefit from Disease Mastery? Why, for the third expansion in a row, are our best AAs passive buffs instead of active abilities? What the AAs should have been: -Replace Deathly Howl with Banshee. -Replace Vile Blade with Scream of Blood. -Disease mastery should have 25% more critical damage and 10% reuse. The drastic increase in critical damage would encourage Dirges to get spell crit instead of being 100% melee focused. -Improve Dissonant Requiem's casting speed some way whether it's from AAs or adjusting the spell manually. The 25% from Disease Mastery isn't nearly enough. -Nerf Battle Cry by 5% DA but make the flurry component affect both the Dirge and the recipient. -Bard tree needs Bump in it or the AA needs to be adjusted to 20s recast. -Rework the 2 +skills buffs in the Bard tree and come up with something else. What the Dirge Tree Shadow Tree should have looked like: Bard Tree ======= Add Enhance Bump - increase base damage and accuracy by 10%, improves reuse by 2s per rank. (This would allow Bump and Grim Strike/Night Strike to have the same reuse.) Drop Defensive Ballad - Completely useless for Troubs. It's also redundant as we can already enhance it via KoS STR line AAs. Dirge Tree ======== Add Enhance Dissonant Requiem - Increase casting speed by 10%, increase base damage by 10% per rank. (This spell really needs this much help for it to be useful. It currently has an absurd cast time to damage ratio and is rarely used.) Add Enhance Banshee - Shortens duration by 10%, increase base damage by 5%, improves casting speed by 5% per rank. Add Enhance Scream of Blood - Shortens duration by 10%, increase base damage by 5%, improves reuse by 2s per rank Add Enhance Gravitas - Adds enhance 2% hostile spell damage per rank. Drop Deathly Howl - Disease Mastery already affects it + it's in the EoF tree Drop Vile Blade - It's just not that good Drop Defensive Curse - This AA sucks Raid Set Gear: Why is our legendary set better than our raid set? Where is the haste on the gloves? Where is the CoB increase on the chest? +slash, pierce? Why did the removal of Percussion of Stone's concentration slot get moved to our chest which is the best piece of gear outside of set gear? The new 2 set Enhance Speech of Sacrifice is 100% crap. Both end game raiders and casual raiders will be shackeled to the VP 2 set forever now. Where is the CoB recast reduction? Why isn't this a focus effect on our legs? What the Raid Set should have been: Gloves - Add 40 haste, make effect on all spells and CAs Helm - Add 4 DA, make effect on all spells and CAs. Change focus to +slash Forearms - Add +slash and +pierce Legs - Add 5 melee crit, Drop Riana's Focus, Add Rhythmic War Chant proc, Add Focus Banshee or Focus Scream of Blood (Increase Base Damage by 30%) Chest - Drop Rhythmic War Chant proc, drop Focus Percussion and add Focus Speech of Sacrifice, this piece is supposed to suck so we can use Avatar/Contested/FG Shoulders - Drop +focus, add +slash Boots - Drop +CA/spell. Add the Trooper Scale Boots type proc seen on the Legendary Scout Chest Sets (12 melee DA, 6 ranged DA for 10-15s) 2 set - Focus Percussion of Stone - Removes conc slot. Adds +5 group crit mit to Percussion. 4 set - Reduce recast of Blades by 30s. Focus Chimes of Blades - Adds 35% item trigger chance. 5 set - Rhythmic War Chant proc - 5% base spell/heal/CA damage for group. 6 set - Enhance Boon - 10% melee accuracy.
yeah, i totally agree with kall, AA tso tree need to be reworked, and our set need more slash/pierce ! stop giving us focus Oo btw thx Soe for the last GU 51 ! may you hear us again ...
CoB could use a base dmg boost aswell considering how worthless the haste component actually is nowadays when everyone sits fully buffed to the teeth at the caps , potm could use a slight change too like a 5% base dmg increase instead of the int boost , this is pretty much a tier6 relict in general both lines BC should definatly affect the buffer and the recipient theres absolutley no reason why it shouldnt the dps wouldnt sky rocket from it , 5% flurry is actually not that gamebreaking they can nerf it down to 10% da totally agree make the rez spells uninterrutable theres nothing worse than getting it almost off and then some crap hits and the timer starts again , therefor the cast time is way too high next is the buffing this went really out of hand with TSO abilities 14 buffs is just too much to cast after a death considering the cast timethe aa gained stuff should be passive active ones anyways , i dont need to cast a buff on my rogue to get the 14% melee crit going or avast ye proc nor the sailwind ability , either consolidate them into 1 big aa buff or mnake them like i said passive active just because we are primarily a buff class doesnt mean that all the stuff has to be cast kalls suggestion for the set sound good aswell id like to combine gear more too actually and increase the base dmg in general of all bard abilites this is a joke that most procs outparse our actual abilities spells should use a 0,5 cast timer too , dunno why they need to 1sec plus ? because its spells ? look at SKs please theyre hybrids aswell most of the stuff they got is 0,5
Tarias wrote: The problem with the passive buffs is that our AA buffs are group wide. I'm not sure they can code a passive buff that would hit everyone in group. What would be a great alternative (and I think I'm going to add this to the official list) is to make our non-conc slot buffs instant or near instant (.5 seconds tops) especially our AA buffs. There is no reason to have outrageous cast times on them (especially selos /ugh) since they are not situational and will be casted every time we die. I can understand leaving cast times on our conc slot ones since it penalizes you for not thinking ahead and having to switch buffs in combat. If they are worried about us using them as ghetto taunts, they can put long reuse timers on them (that's how my guard's group buffs are set up). My guess is the graphics folk won an argument and it was decided that their "cool" animations had to be seen...
@Aeralik fix Dead Calm pls the proc isnt nearly what it should be according to the description its much less than on 20% of combat attacks I have lots of parse data to back this up and dunno 3 procs per minute seems a bit low considering 50 auto attack hits it also needs to use mc modifier instead of sc modifier
Tarias wrote: With the upcomming changes hopfuly it will be changed to MC. As for the rest of your post, it doesn't read that it will proc 20% of the time, it says that with Luck of the Dirge, that there is a 19% for every melee hit, ranged attack, or CA that it will trigger the proc. There is a POOP-TON of math involved to calculate procs and most of that is listed in the Combat forum but for right now Tombs is Working correctly.
I'm looking at an issue with a conflict between the Hollow Aria line on the T1-T3 Dirge BP's and the T4 5 piece set bonus. Both the T1-T3 BP and the 5 set bonus increase the proc chance of CoB, but they don't stack. If you have both, then whatever bonus you get from the BP is what gets applied (going by the spell description). The 5 piece bonus is +33% to proc T1 BP is +25% T2 I don't have the number for, but I'm guessing 29% T3 BP is +33%, giving the same bonus as the 5 set T4. Doesn't seem to matter which order you equip in for the bonus - if you're wearing the BP, that's the bonus you get. Is there a rule which says that if an effect is granted by both an item and a set bonus, the item effect always gets priority? Are these bonuses supposed to stack? I'll admit that this is probably a pretty rare scenario, as most Dirges who have 5 pieces of raid gear will likely have better BP options than a T2 BP and will never see the conflict, but this was the situation I found myself in. I ended up just going with the Woven Shadow BP from SoH for now...
