Completely useless spells

Discussion in 'Warlock' started by ARCHIVED-Korvac Xavier, Jul 15, 2009.

  1. ARCHIVED-Laretha Guest

    I would like to confirm Korrups option and intent of this topic. I also have been play EQ and EQ2 from conception doesnt make me any more experienced than anyone that knows and plays there class well.
    Secondly EQ2flames is just as vaild as these boards for information and opinions whether its game approved has little to do with information or understanding of the game. Which also confirms Korrups conculsion to post on this site.
    I dont have most of these spells on my hot bars let alone consider casting them, if this is the general concensus then they need to be looked at.
    If anyone as an individual feels they want to use them well that is there right to however when the general population of warlocks consider something useless well it needs to be discussed and brough to the attention of those that can make a change.
    Lare
  2. ARCHIVED-iceriven2 Guest

    As someone who's played since launch, and has played a wizard and Warlock, I can confirm a warlock needs more love then a wizzie. And my main is the wizzie.

    The spells stated by the OP i never use. OR rarely use. Dissolve, and the Wizard version are never casted by the respective class. It doesnt apear on either one of my sorcerers hotbars, their is always something better to cast. As debuffs go the Warlocks "useless" 2, I personally dont find useful. Heroics die to fast, And in raids there are enough debuffs where it doesnt matter if u cast them or not. Dumbfire would be good to cast in raids if they didnt die so fast.
    So i dont just repeat what others say, i have some suggestions. Dumbfires, aoe immune(which i think i heard they were going to do, or thinking of at fan faire) Dissolve... Make it insta cast, so it doesnt reduce dps if casted. Change the debuffs all together, the devs wont make them any stronger, b/c with other debuffs it may break some aspects of game play so just forget the debuffing and change it something else. And pillaging, I think it should merge with vacuum field. make it one spell.

    Also my final comment is eq2flames is the most useful sight for an eq2player, yes the posters are brash and can be straight up d**** to some posters, but the info from that site is awesome. Its the only place that gives u AA, item, and casting order for almost all classes. The only reason i come to the normal forums is to check out news from the devs and when i am bored off my A** and check out what little activity there is in some forums
  3. ARCHIVED-Darkdaedulus Guest

    /Bump
    I just wanted to say a bit on this .. Yes the spells that the op had mentioned need to be looked at ...
    Roots are great soloing, but as stated already above if they are not resisted or if they dont break. Our roots have the highest chance at being resisted than any other mage class roots. Due to the majority of our spells being dots, each tick increases the chance of that root being broken. I find myself cycling between my single and grp root. But ehh Im pretty sure that every class has their heart aches. Its just that we dont have anyone to speak for us. I would like to see or have a gm "play" or pick someone that "plays" a warlock in every aspect of the game so that they can see what we see that needs to be fixed. Im not lookin for love... Just fixes to the spells that have been listed many many times in other threads like this one.
    I think that the arguements already stated where very thought out and that a dev shouldnt have any issues understanding what is being asked.
    No this isnt eq2flames...But even on that site there is some very well stated issues with this class that needs to be looked into, once you get past all of the idiotic, close minded comments.
  4. ARCHIVED-Hellswrath Guest

    As long as I ignore Pahblo's posting, this is a rather useful thread. Mainly, it's just nice to see activity in here other than the typical "player asking for help" stuff. So I'll join the bandwagon here in hoping that we get some real attention this time.
    Curse of Darkness - I fully stand behind the max power/health curse being worthless in every sense of the word. I tell every warlock I train to immediately take it off their hotbar and never, ever let me catch them casting it.
    Curse of Void - Our other curse is situationally useful in theory, but I'm not really sure how useful. I've never noticed a difference in mob damage between casting it and not. Maybe it just needs a boost, or maybe it needs a re-work. Hard to say without more precise data on it's effects against raid/group named. Only ever worth casting against hard named (hard being based on your group/raid's capabilities), if at all. Even then, you would need a good control run to see what typical damage is without the debuff and then another with. This would have to be without any other debuffs running, so it will most likely never happen unless the devs do the testing.
    Vacuum Field - Our nox debuff is decent when the warlock tree AA are pumped into it (the shadows boost to it is so small as to not be worth the AA). However, the Wizzy equivalent is combined with their Acid equivalent. So we really lose out there. Not sure how to combine them, though, since one is target encounter and the other is single target. Maybe combine the Nebula line with our debuff line? If it worked off the Nebula cast time (maybe a little less, as bad as that spell is) and that didn't change at all, it would make casting nebula not a joke anymore.
    Nebula line. . . well. . . .like I just said, casting it is a joke. The encounter stun is nice, but the dps is so pitiful (even with AA) that it is only useful for the stun. Combined into the nox debuff line it might be useful.
    Dark Siphoning (Pillaging) - needs a significant boost. And get rid of the power drain component. There hasn't been a use for power drains in ages other than the first named in Maiden's, and that was changed (any other locks feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). The devs have even stated at Fan Faire '08 that power drains against mobs were ineffective now, since the mob power pools had grown so large. So the power drain just generates unnecessary hate and the power gain is marginal at best. The spell would be useful if it gave a useful amount of power, IMO.
    Dissolve - Atrocious. This spell will reduce your dps by casting it, even with all AAs in it. The only reason it would help you is if you are trying to sneak in that last second spell in an encounter to nudge your dps and all your other fast cast spells are down. Even then, it's pretty much just to suck up what would otherwise be dead-time not casting. It's another spell I tell learning warolocks to never cast unless they have no other spells to cast. Since that is never an issue, one never casts it.
    Netherlord - Needs improvement. The base data I gathered from a lot of time on the training dummy is as follows: netherlord is capable of 18 swings at the opponent, assuming it doesn't have to run far to the mob. An average of 30% of those will miss outright at Master level. An average of 335 damage/swing when it does hit. So it is capable of about 6K damage (damage, not dps) at master quality if all of the attacks hit, which they never do. Average is around or just below 3k dps depending on the your cast speed if all attacks hit. Actual dps is around 2K because of the misses. This isn't even taking into account the problems with dumbfire pets dying to the first AE, since that is supposedly getting a fix. So even if they change dumbfire pets into being AE immune, or treat them as dots, unless they cause the netherlord pet to never miss, this spell is not worth casting. It needs a damage increase, or other effect.
    This covers most of the spell issues I can think of offhand. There are some other class issues, but those have already been posted on the now ancient "new current issues" thread that is stickied.
  5. ARCHIVED-BetaMaster Guest

    This is not to be taken as an attack but rather as support/comments on what I feel the class should have and what the class already has.

    Hellswrath@Blackburrow wrote:
    Broodlings:
    Was our most effective spell to cast for awhile there. And has been killed by aoes and many other things. Again... could be helped by Curse of Void.
  6. ARCHIVED-Laretha Guest

    Hellswrath great post covers it in a nut shell.

    Lare
  7. ARCHIVED-wesblueeyes Guest

    Might as well jump on the bandwagon and hope we get some attention. First off in regards to Netherlord and Infestation (broodlings) I heard that dumbfire pets were being changed drastically come next expansion. Basically turning them into damaging spells or what not, that information however is hearsay and could be a load of bunk.

    Netherlord- It looks pretty but is lacking in the survivability/dps department. This spell would actually be worthwhile if it was AOE immune and did real dps.
    Infestation- Broodlings are up to debate for me, in some raids, aka the ones without AOE's which are rare, it can be useful. The dps potential of broodlings is nice, but sadly they don't live very long. Again if they could be AOE immune this would bolster their usefulness greatly.
    Curse of Luclin- This debuff needs to be looked into greatly. Either remove it from the game or change it somehow. It's original intention was to be a hp debuff, I get that, but it really hasn't scaled properly with the game. Either turn the number into a % and make it worthwhile or find another use for this.
    Detaunts- First off before you go nuts, I find uses for our detaunt encounter spells....in the form of interuption in areas like WoE for example. Besides that really not useful imo since they seem to get resisted alot. Just an idle though.
    Max Targets- The whole 8 max targets on our blues is a real downer at times. I would prefer to see these become like the SK Sacrament line where the max target thing is removed. This would modernize us with the game since many tanks no longer go about pulling single encounters.
    Other than that I really don't have much to complain about as a warlock, except for the whole eating power up like a fat kid eats cake. Besides a few spells that are outdated, we are an exetremely dps capable class in the right hands and can pump out staggering numbers.
  8. ARCHIVED-Econometrix Guest

    I recently returned to EQ2 after a 1-year hiatus and have been reaquainting myself with my warlock and coercer.
    I am saddened to see that nothing has been done to improve the balance between wizards and warlocks. I never felt that my warlock was lacking in power. However, wizards receive a number of spells/AAs that are not matched by those available to warlocks. This difference is most notable after level 50.
    It bothers me that warlocks should have so many useless spells when wizards have things like evac, manaburn, fission, and hail storm. Why on earth should wizards' receive an AE spell that does more damage than the comparable DD spell available to warlocks? I do not question that good warlocks are able to hold their own. However, the two classes should be on more equal footing when it comes to the value of their spells and AAs.
    Does anyone else feel this way?
  9. ARCHIVED-TheSpin Guest

    Econometrix wrote:
    I'm just kinda trollin and reading, but I'd have to say that I generally see more demand for warlocks than wizards lately. Manaburn has been crap for a couple expansions now. You're info and assumptions about class balance may be a little out of date overall. It's possible I'm wrong, but warlocks are actually at a good place in the game balance right now from what I've seen.
    Not sayin that means a couple things couldn't use some attention, like dumbfire spells. I hope the rumor is true that they'll essentially turn into DoTs with a graphic.
  10. ARCHIVED-Econometrix Guest

    TheSpin wrote:
    If I may ask, what has changed in the last year to improve the situation? I've always viewed manaburn as situationally useful but better than aftershocks. The warlock has nothing to equal the utility of the wizard's evac. Plaguebringer is inferior to hail storm, and rift is (was) generally not as useful as fusion. This is not even taking into account the curses and dumbfire pets.
  11. ARCHIVED-AziBam Guest

    The one are where I feel we are lacking compared to Wiz is their group proc buff (temp). I don't recall the name...ice something? Anyway, we don't have anything like that at all. I kind of think an easy fix to remedy that would be to make Gift or Netherealm group wide. As long as the numbers weren't reduced for our portion of it (we don't need to be nerfed.)

    Edit: Pondered those two a bit more and decided I'd rather they not mess with Netherealm. I just see nothing but bad things coming from messing with that spell given how it currently functions. Gift on the other hand could work out nicely as a group-wide short term buff.
  12. ARCHIVED-isis23 Guest

    Gift of Bertoxxulous and Frigid Gift work basically the same way, only Frigid Gift lasts a shorter amount of time to compensate for more damage to both caster and the group. I dont think it's a utility that is hurting us to be missing and AAs would have to be reworked (and wasted imo) to make it fuction appropriately for the group. I do know a lot of chanters like having a wizard for the extra damage they recieve from the spell, but I wouldnt like Gift of Bertoxxulous to be shortened in duration and I feel it's a point of balance between the two classes. Raids and groups will still need warlocks for the function they perform (T1 DPS with massive AE DPS) as it currently is. It is not a spell I'd like SOE to put time into changing when we have so many others that are in more drastic need of being looked at and adjusted.
  13. ARCHIVED-Alfred75 Guest

    Netheros actually has its use when soloing, it makes life so much easier. I am not gonna say it out in case it gets nerfed ...

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