I would love to see WDB added to mystical ability-focused gear. I'd love to out-DPS coercers by even more than I do currently.
lmfao tbh you just seem to act like a forum troll who likes to pick fights... I still eat illu's like you for breakfast ... at the end of the day I was complaining about hp's not our dps .. I still can out dps illus on a lot of fights yes some they will win lol but mostly when its a ranged fight.
Neither class does, you're right. But my point is that a Melee specced Illusionist is still going to benefit from Double Cast and 20k+ Ability Mod that Coercers do not benefit from. This leaves them with less stats to reforge into Flurry, and possibly AOE Auto attack. Less auto attack swings = less gain from WDB. Then as I've mentioned previously, Coercers tend to get Scouty groups. We're more likely to have get the accuracy, haste, DPS and MA buffs. Regolas, read the above, Coercers auto attack doesn't do that high a portion of our damage because our spells are so weak. Sure it makes it look that way, but we also manage to reach ~80% Flurry, ~700DPS mod and 100% Ae Auto in raids. Which is less than a Melee specced Illusionist would have since they would still need to reforge for excess ability mod and double cast. I never claimed that the set wouldn't benefit a Wizard's auto attack, however if they chose that set over the Mystical set they lose a ton of Potency/CB and will struggle to reforge for the 35-40k Ability mod they reforge for. So again, wearing the no stamina gear as a Wizard is a loss, just like it is for a Warlock and a Conjuror.. and a Necromancer. I seriously don't know why people are bringing spell damage and potency into this discussion. Mystical gear gives MORE Potency and Critbonus, as well as higher amounts of Cast/Reuse/Ability mod, benefiting the classes that have higher damage spells, need double cast and more ability mod than Coercers. Oh and +HP%. The forearms can be argued best for every mage, but not the set.
If you are stating that WDB is 'better' for coercers because their base ability damage is lower, and thus allocate more stats into DPS, MA, etc., which would yield a larger return for WDB than illusionists... this is true (mildly, as in barely) but true. If you are interested in mathematically determining the exact value (EncDPS - wise) there is a calculator in my comment. I expect the EncDPS AA value of the coercer to be within 5% of the illusionist. However, I don't see what this point does for your argument. Illusionists have higher base spell damage, but comparable auto attack damage, and thus benefit 'more' from the potency or WDB of the no-sta gear. Again, you need to show how illusionists prefer to use ranged auto attacks over melee with reference to coercers to win the argument. I've given some suggestions (e.g. Tortoise Shell, Killing Chamber, Klandicar adds), but finding a plausible and consistent reason is the difficulty here.
Well top tier raid armor should have higher stats than heroic loot. Is this true for overcharged no STA gear also? The no STA gear is supposed to be at potency level of stats. So mystical should be better. If it's not, that's another argument.
what are you? a coercer? tbh that means bad illies most times. illy should parse more then a coercer atm in equal terms. in their right group setups. unless your raid puts coercers in the mage group for some reason.
it is true it has better stats, but of course no STA gear has all the stats, which mystical doesn't of course (give up pot for wdb, or wdb for pot). other things aside though, a coercer has more chances to melee then an illy does cause an illy group (usually) has 1 healer, and coercer (usually) has 2 healers. 1 shaman.
This is a valid point. I will counter with if anything was going to kill an enchanter, it would kill them with two or three healers in current raid content (enchanters aren't going to tank stuff). ='( Additionally, the mage group tends to be within a 10 meter range due to PBAE abilities of other classes (e.g. Warlock, Necromancer, Fury).
We pretty agree on a number of points (even if I seem combative). Couple disagreements on specifics perhaps but that isn't important. My main objection was to the fact that Coercers somehow either benefited more or somehow lost out on stuff due to the No-STA gear. I don't agree with that assessment, and the math doesn't support it - and honestly Rangers are way bigger losers in that regard. But that isn't really the big deal, because honestly, I would like to see Coercers buffed to where these kinds of threads aren't even necessary. Coercers got hosed, that's the real issue here. Anyway, that's the last I'm going to say on the matter.
I think people make too big a deal with the no STA stuff. Of course it is better from a min max point of view, but my ranger does 40-50% of his dps from autoattack. Autoattack is reliable and consistent, so while a few hundred potency may make a bit of difference on the 15 other abilities that each contribute under 4% of a parse, if you can't get the sparkling gems for it then it's better to have the higher WDB and CB than a slightly lower value for those and more potency.
To be honest the last few pages do nothing to help the op or coercers in general. Both sides of the no STA gear are right from their own point of view - scouts generally gain more dps from it as their base damage is higher, and chanters risk a lot more from wearing it as their base health is lower. But as things stand it is the easiest way for a coe to get their dps closer to where it should be compared to other classes. I made my illy a while ago because the autoattack side of it really appealed to me. Came back 2 months ago and loved all the changes except when I found that my necro did a massive amount more ranged autoattack damage than my illy. SOE gave summoners and sorcerors a major boost to wand damage and in a single stroke they wiped out one of the defining features of chanters - more powerful autoattack but less powerful spells. Easiest fix for coercers is to give chanters the same wand damage multiplier that they gave to the other mages. This will benefit illies a little but is much more significant for coercers who naturally spec into flurry anyway. Plus hitting 1475 magic skills to raise the minimum spell and wand damage 20% closer to max is easier as there is no longer any need for weapon skills. PS. Fabled Thaumaturgist's Staff - the 2 second delay is a joke and they should change to 6 or preferably 7 seconds. Melee chanters gearing up to raid or non-raiding have no access to a decent 2h weapon unless they are extremely lucky with the labs chest loot - so possibly the majority of chanters in-game nowadays are missing out.
