Coercer should have more DPS than illy

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Ozzello, Apr 2, 2020.

  1. Ozzello Member

    Illy adds more DPS to the group. So WHY WHY WHY are we still crap for damage?

    I hear know an illy who now feeds more power than the raid coercer.. says the coercer almost does decent DPS too. I know if I actually make a decent parse in raid, it's ascensions, NOT coercer.

    Yea, puppets got a lil boost, solos aren't even painful now. I actually renewed my cancelled sub after that.

    Yea I am doing melee, shooting a crossbow, spending plenty on temps and infusers and painlinks and DB coin to up my merc buff... Sometimes I beat 3 , even 4 healers on DPS...or the new guy without enough resolve to even hit the mob.

    This is AT LEAST 3 YEARS of coercers being crap at the bottom. Great for early in an Xpak , when our powerfeeds are needed, but again, a few months in, the raid starts looking for an illy for that group DPS.

    Really is time to find something else to do with the time and money I give EQ2
    Argosunited and Obano like this.
  2. Laita Well-Known Member

    There's allegedly some class balancing coming in this next GU (this month).. so hang in there... and while I think everyone agrees Coercer can use some love, I can't help but cringe when people claim X class needs to be better than Y class... No, coercer shouldn't have MORE DPS than an Illy... it should be roughly equivalent (as in on a training dummy), and they should be able to take better use of the group buffs for their role in raids, bc lets not pretend that either class should have the same impact in a particularly stacked group, bc if that's the case, just merge the two lol... they both have their roles and that's how it should be.

    Yes, they need love, hopefully the GU this month give's it to them (and a few other struggling classes) w/o having to take the nerf bat to other classes, b/c historically that's what "balancing" seems to be all about :/
    Scrappyz likes this.
  3. Errrorr An Actual EQ2 Player

    Illy and Coercer should have near equal DPS ceilings.

    What needs balancing, is the Utility that each brings.
    Breanna and Scrappyz like this.
  4. Ozzello Member

    We don't need to be equal, or the same. The origins of EQ2 had classes filling different niches that would all have a place. The illy was the mage group and single target chanter. Coercer was the AOE and had better buffs in a melee/ tank group. We now have monks pwnig all, no place for a bruiser. Illy giving better buffs AND out DPSing coercers pound for pound for any group. The Inquis. was supposed to be the better DPS, as was the fury, now both are sitting on the sidelines while the warden and Templars beat them on both parses.

    We don't need a balancing or an equalization. We need to go back to each class having a place to shine, and good raid set ups having almost every class with a niche to contribute. Illy troub fury, mages..Tank , coercer, dirge. And whats with all the chain healers being at the bottom now? Just seems to be too much focus on the class of the month.. and the month has turned into years.
    Argosunited and Bentley101 like this.
  5. Ozzello Member

    Raided last night again. Seriously ready to quit. what? Wait? They are going to "help balance some classes"?
    Yea, the check is in the mail again, whatever. 1 more EQ2 player will be leaving, and this time I won't ante up ever again.

    Coercer was the class for talented players wanting to make a difference. Help a tank hold agro, the DPS not grab agro, Mob control when your tank pulled the room. Snaps.. MAN a good coercer was that oil to make a fail group or raid actually pull off the zone.

    Now, none of this matters, even if it is something they didn't make barely work on half the mobs, or break completely.. Mezzing, crowd control and agro control are nothing a raid or group needs anymore... AND we HAVE NO DPS.

    Everyone knows good coercer bringing down some DPS... but not as coercers, it is ascensions. And this isn't just about the lack of DPS, is the lack of utility from what was the absolute in utility.

    Did some Dev get pissed at a coercer troll?
    WTF happened to this class that someone who played this class since launch, wants to just quit playing completely?
    Argosunited and Alarra like this.
  6. Alarra Well-Known Member

    I know that Gregore changed to illy and he was a pretty hardcore coercer.

    I will have to check my parse, but I don't think that most of my dps comes from Ascensions anymore.
    As a note, at present my spec is heavily melee based now.
    I have noticed increased dps since switching to melee.
    Hitting around 5-7 billion dps currently with 155k potency.


    Will be interesting to see what exactly happens in the class balance that is meant to affect "ALL" mages.


    However, our current utility is basically powerfeed and that is about it.
    All the other stuff is either immune, not needed, or other classes do it better.
    With the current in-game culture if mezzing was supposed to be a thing again everyone else would moan.

    When I first started I enjoyed the fact that when you pulled half a room by mistake, I could keep half of those mobs stun/mezz locked until we had beaten down enough to take on the mezzed mobs.
    Nowadays, people would be like, WHO the (insert your choice of word) mezzed/stunned that mob, you're messing with my dps.
    If the group goes splat it is now the expectation that the healer or tank should keep up the group. It is sad, but crowd control has been sidelined for so long it is not longer an expected thing to do. If it were expected, then it would be "I Can't do this zone without this class, your design is broken."

    I would say if you are gonna make everything immune to control effects except some select trash, then give us a bone.
    Make an alternate effect like: If immune to control effects, then combat mitigation/debuff stays in effect for duration of the original spell.

    The Charm Nerf hit so hard that charmed pets hit like a wet noodle compared to the Possess Essence. What is the point of using it now :(. If you guys nerf something can you please test it and not smash it to oblivion.
    There is a 50 km deep crater in the ground with a tombsone "Here lies charmed pets".

    Well, I will see what the GU offers, I'm not optimistic, but I am hopeful.
    Argosunited and Bentley101 like this.
  7. Laita Well-Known Member

    I'd love to see your parse data for raids.. I'm not the Illy standard bearer by any means, haven't hardcore raided in like 5 years... but tonight on multiple 18-20b single target named parses (165k pot, 360 fervor), the ONLY illy ability to crack top 5 was Prismatic Chaos (my 1 celestial ability), everything else was either a proc, auto attack, Unda (which every mage gets) or an ascension. Theorms came in at #6 for the most part. And prismatic chaos is entirely dependent on my chosen two scouts to keep their butts alive and get in there and hit the mob, lol.

    A lot of the other stuff you mention, such as utility, is crap for both illys and cocercers right now.. Mezzing/stunning/stifle is pretty much non-existant (which is w/e I'm fine with it, but give both classes a boost somewhere else if getting rid of it), buffs aren't much of anything to be proud of for either class... As an illy, no one seems to want time compression, ill arm, arms of imagination, etc etc.. illy prestige is ok, but nothing to write home about, epic 1 and 2.0 both kinda suck, time warp is ok, but out dated, only cast it now for the fervor.

    All I'm trying to say is neither class has much utility beyond being a battery... and when you look at the parse numbers, the assumption that illy abilities are OP just doesn't add up for me. And I'm only speaking for myself, because most if the top stuff on my parser is the same things coercers have (procs/auto attack/ascensions/mage prestige)… BUT.. with all that said, I look forward to reading Tuesdays update notes and seeing what we have to work with.
  8. Twisty Well-Known Member

    difference between them is Illy's ToT cloak, which has been brokenOP for nearly as long as Feedback loop.

    all of which is of course gona be fixed next tues :rolleyes:
  9. Laita Well-Known Member


    Shhhhh.. I’m hoping one of the changes come Tuesday is making the cloak ability perm for that spell, lol...
  10. Raff Well-Known Member

    Just curious why you think a Coercer should have more DPS than an Illy?
    Jrox likes this.
  11. Jrox Well-Known Member

    This thread should be locked. Asking for nerfs of any class should be considered taboo and you should be banned from the threads for it in my opinion. If you don't have something nice to say ****. Coercers have their place and it has never been to out parse an Illy. Yet there were plenty of good Coercers out there that competed. And in raid they have always been up on the Illy since they can cross group power feed and help with aggro management.

    Those of you looking for nerfs... Shame on you! Ask for boosts to your class, talk about class balance by getting something of your class that you feel is broken, but FFS leave the nerf talk on your bedside table.
    Luciano, Argosunited and Carizia like this.
  12. Gregore Active Member

    Dude, just betray to Illy! Coercers are beyond broken. Best thing I ever did was finally betray to Illy. Now, I could care less if they ever fix the Coercer class or not!
    I'm probably done playing after my subs run out next month anyways. They have about a month to win me back, and after last night's broken raid content, things aren't looking good for me to stick around!
    Jrox likes this.