I played a coercer at launch and I loved the class. I recall being able to charm a heroic mob AS IS and enjoy myself for a minute or two until it turned on me and I was likely to wipe. Fast forward a bunch of years and now a charmed create has a massive 35 minute duration and if it doesn't die from 2-3 hits you can look forward to it dealing about 10K dps at level 95. Is anyone able to explain how it came to this? Was it intended that a Coercer would end up with worthless pets and just a mishmash of random stuff to make them useful in a group setting? Don't get me wrong, I think it's a strong class if the right person is behind it, but what happened to the defining elements of the class? Yeah I know mez has been phased out too, but I understand how that evolved. I just don't recall the reasoning for how the pets became useless.
pets haven't become completely useless. and how it came to be is simple. as people/gear grows with the age of the game, people with pets were getting a greater advantage. cause pets could proc procs. so a person with a pet could be doing a ******** amount of damage in comparison to someone without a pet. so they just took away pet procs. which made basically every pet eh. as for heroic charming, you still can do that.
I'm not talking about pets proccing stuff at all. You're talking about a change from a recent game update that people complained a lot about and it's not what i'm getting at. I'm talking about the core pets themselves. Pets being able to proc things only covered up how useless some pets are. Based on your response I don't think you played a coercer then or now. Necro, Conjy, and illy pets are not useless. They contribute meaningful DPS. Coercer pets are basically useless. Yes you can still charm mobs, but as I tried to state in my post it's not a charm like it used to be. It's become a severely weakened copy of the target you wanted to charm and frankly i'm not sure it even retains the abilities of the class you charmed.
I have played a coercer alot longer than 90% of the people that play this game. really idk what you are talking about than, nothing has changed from than and now except the randomness of your charm breaking
Currently some mobs in temple instances can be charmed and they can easily do 1,5-2m of dps. It remind me ROK days when coercers could solo heroic content.
So why is it that when I charm something heroic and have it fight it's buddy it dies almost instantly? That was not the case at launch when I played my coercer heavily. Maybe i'm doing something wrong since you both seem to think i'm mistaken. EDIT: Just ran a test to make sure i'm not crazy. I just charmed a mob from vesspyr and had him fight the same mob of the same level. He died in two hits. Got the enemy down to like 95% health. This was not the case a launch.
so what you are saying is, the devs fixed the "cheat" (yes I will say cheat). that was put in place that coercers used to kill content for them? that is shocking, how could they ruin the coercer class like that
I'm saying that I decided to bring my Coercer back up to speed and the power of a charmed creature was nothing like it was when I played the class as my main long ago and I wanted to understand how that came to be. I really didn't remember charm being overpowered back in the day. I remembered it being high risk/reward which is what it should have been. Thanks for dismissing my point that something has changed and then admitting that something changed and then proceeding to mock me for asking questions on why it was done.
I'll admit I could be mistaken about DPS though. I can run more tests on that. I might have been blinded by the massive max health differential and it made it seem like my charmed creatures were dealing minimal damage.
I seem to remember when my illy was a coercer, she could clear heroic content by charming and letting the pet die, then charming whtaever killed the pet, rinse and repeat till named. Then you just mez-proc killed him.
And there was no risk in this? Re-charming always worked and you never had problems with named? I know it was possible to do impressive things with charm but it wasn't without risk and you could certainly clear things much much much faster with a group to the point where soloing as a coercer wasn't really ideal. I just think people get upset if one class can solo something that another can't, even if it's not worth doing so. If they would have re-named charm to "replace mob with weaksauce defense" then I wouldn't have questioned the changes. I think you guys answered my question about charm though. At some point after I quit playing the class the HP of the charmed creature was debuffed to prevent the possibility of soloing things that were meant for a group. DPS of the charmed creature is apparently untouched. So on to possess essence then... For me it's pretty horrible. Illy pet blows it out of the water? Was this always the case?
PE is pretty much useless. Agreed. In some fights I don't even bother to possess at all. Though I use puppet master when it's up. Gives a bit of dps increase.. Not much but better something than nothing as it was before. Illys pet got tripple damage increase but has one in my opinion disatvantage. It chains a target on pull. It really is irritating when you need a target to move to you and quickly. Examples Luminox Prime right before his blast goes off and Gyro. Though I play coercer and know better about them than illusionists. Illusionist is my solo and very rare heroic alt. So I may miss something here. And yes. Developers fixed pet group procs. I haven't really checked charm in ToV. Next time when I run it with a group I will try to do just that to check dps increase.
Yeah for sure nearly all of the dumbfire pets are good now. Especially the summoners dumbfire pets. Neither of my enchanters get played much anymore, but I have noticed the same thing with the illy pet. Still though it seems like a Coercer should dominate the pet category rather than the illusionist. I was just surprised when I came back to the class and my charmed targets were made of paper and possessed essence pets could take a few hits, but deal almost no damage. Seems like there is no point to possess essence anymore because if you really want something to take hits you'd just hire a tank merc. I must say I played my coercer when the level cap was 50 though and I have no idea if possessed essence was ever better than it is now.
What people are not explaining to the OP is the nature of the change..... It used to be when you charmed a pet, it retained not only its' class abilities but its' level and stats before it was charmed. The key change stopped all that and now when you charm a mob, it assumes your stats and a (usually) Guardian spec with only overpower and a couple of other lame abils. Occasionally you will find a zerker mob and really rarely, something else. When you charm a heroic, it loses it's heroic attributes also so you get a bland 'none up' of your level that does next to no dps and is made of wet tissue. Yes, CC on a coercer used to be overpowered; now we just have the same solo modus operandi as a wiz - root, nuke, ad infinitum! Even though it's as boring as hell, I still love my coercer but I would seriously love the devs to give mobs their own classes back and let us charm them at level even if they did handcuff their abilities a little. Summoners have the ability to keep 'pets in their pocket' for when they are careless and kill them. If we possess something that is useful, it simply doesn't persist across zones and we cannot take it with us either.
Ok Ranga this sums up what I felt I was seeing. So you're saying not only does the HP of the charmed mob get severely debuffed, but even the offensive stats are adjusted as well? So why did they change this? I don't understand why the change was needed. Really who cares when a class is able to solo something that's heroic? That happens every expansion and again I would argue that it's not worth the time to do so. You're going to do better loot-wise if you stick to groups.
This thread is a prime example of why coercers have been nullified into portable batteries And you are absolutely correct, even though it is great fun trying to solo something with a pet; with all its' dangers and problems, the time involved makes it just that; a bit of fun not a way to screw the whole server out of loot lol.
Oh , howdy "The Jones" nice to see you in another thread I am interested in It might be whats happening at your level , cuz I just revived my old coercer wich is almost lvl 50 now. The pets always lost something compared to who they were before charming if charming above 1^ , I think the standard was they became 0up or 1up^. And in my recent experience it hasn't changed. The power of pet charm with the coercer is and always has been that you can pull a mob out of a group so you can defeat that encounter (druid same with animal charm) And on top of that , you can charm almost anything (unlike druid) The coercer is not a pet class. Don't keep pets ... But as of late , I am feeling like my coercer is not as powerful as I once was quite a few expansions ago. Im finding all these spells I need to cast before other spells kind of time consumeing ... not that im asking for advice on those here ... Ill just find or make another thread about it.
I'm trying to decide if this is a real post of if you are a mensa member doing some sort of misdirection. =p If this is a serious post, my apologies--are you still doing the Chains of Eternity zones? If you are, disregard. Charm was not usable there and with everything immune, it was really silly and awful. And I agree 100% with what you posted, for COE. But TOV is another story. The devs were very, very, generous with coercers in heroics this time around. I'm not going to post specifics because I don't want to be responsible for people screaming for charm nerfs (since it was useless in COE it's good to have it very good again)...but... In ToV heroics, if you aren't using charm in them, you are doing it wrong. Don't just charm a random mob. Instead, use your head. Charm things, parse what they do, and figure out what mobs you should be charming. Devs have given you a high variety of things to charm in most zones (granted, one zone only really has one type of mob you can charm, but the thing you can charm can tank the zone for you, so don't complain). Many of the creatures you can charm keep their special abilities when charmed. In some zones, it's a trade off. IE nexus core, the highest dps proc mob is also very squishy, so it'll die to AOEs. Trade off. In some zones, the pet has a *ton* of hp, more than any player would ever come close to. Expiriment! Even a mediocre charmed mob in a tov zone where there isn't much good to charm can do 200-300k+. The best ones can do 750k dps or so. Much, much, more than PE would do. Not "tier 1" dps, but if a coercer is doing 1 million, and you can charm something that adds 250-750k, that's a big chunk.
Coercer charms are wayyy OP in TOV, it's the point where they are starting to out DPS t1's really needs to be reduced.
I've never seen a charmed pet (or a coercer+their charm) out dps a tier1 dps class. Most I've seen from a charmed pet is 800-something K on an AOE fight. It's easily possible for a heroic geared coercer+their pet together to do approx 2 million (maybe a bit more...not counting silly AOE parse inflating fights mind you) and I'm sure a raid geared one decked out could do more. But an equiv geared T1 dps class could be doing 50-100% more, I don't see a problem there. The ratio is about where it should be. Especially since crowd control isn't very useful. There's a few niche cases where the pet can do more, but meh. There's only really one arguably OP charm, and it's not because of it's DPS (and i'm 99% sure it's intended by the devs in the case I'm thinking of). The devs did a great job w/charm this expansion honestly. It's useful, and the stuff that would be game breaking if you could charm it are all immune to it. If the charm (or the coercer+ their charm) is beating a t1 dps, you t1 dps is slacking or there is a huge gear gap.
