with the really nice change to mana flow it has taken away the awesome ability to mana flow two groups at once ((
It was a bug to feed three groups. Feeding two groups shouldn't be a bug. Then why the spell says the other group? Doesn't make sence. EDIT: coercers always get screwed. They cannot parse like illusionists and now they cannot properly power feed. I am gradually getting fed up with bad decisions.
"Modifies mana flow to be group targeted." That doesn't sound like it's intended to target multiple groups. Edit: Other Group just means a group that isn't necessarily your own. If it was Group that would mean it could only target your group.
Mythical buff makes it a group spell. It was nothing new. Without it's a single target like illusionist's. The description says Other group AE. On expiration it returns power to a coercer. So if it is a group spell coercer's group should get mana too. It's in a description of a spell. Edit: this spell worked like this few years. Now suddenly soe decided to fix (screw) it. I say fix it for PvP and leave PvE spell alone.
I am sure that being able to flow 2 groups was always an unintended side effect. However, it has been there for 5-6 xpac's now. At any rate its been many many years, over time this capability has been balanced in. By taking it away and not replacing it with anything, such as reducing the cool down timer, this significantly hampers our mana regen capabilities that has been a key part of our class balancing to date.
The idea of the power replenishment applied to the Coercer also applying to their group seems like a liberal interpretation of the buff. It was a bug; it's fixed now -- I've been a Coercer main for years and used it pretty liberally but I'm not too mad about it not working anymore.
I do have a question. How then it supposed to work in only one group. There is no other group in heroics. What is the intention then of this spell? To power feed only one target and a coercer with 30 sec cooldown?. Other 4 groupies can forget about power then? Then t's not better than illusionist's single target mana flow. What is the purpose of a myth buff then? To cast PE and charm with no concentration slots? I could care less about pets. Who would need coercers then. They are not damage increase machines like illusionists. Make it 15 sec recast then I won't be upset that much. And finally give some more damage options to us. Then it won't be that obvious screw-you-coercers decision.
Other Group doesn't mean that it can't target your own group, just that it's not limited to your group, so it works fine in Heroics if you target someone.
True. It was returning a power to a full group in heroics. But have you tried it after this patch? We were in ToV raid zone dealing with sharpshooters that drain power of tanks. I tried to power feed my tank and as I recall the flow was slow and miniscule like one of an illusionist. I haven't had a chance to run heroics. So I have to do it and see. Anyway I said my unhappy piece and hope that developers listened and will do something nice to coercers for a change to compensate this "fix".
the spell worked in a way that it mana flowed whatever the group the coercer was targeting (the person that actually got the manaflow) and for some reason it was also manaflowing the coercers group (I guess applying the manaflow to the coercer himself). which is clearly just a misuse that was overlook for half of the games history since I doubt anyone ever complained about it I don't think soe ever got a petition like "I can't believe you are letting coercers flow 2 groups at once!" but Soe is finally fixing some things these past few weeks coercers still powerfeed well better then an illy though
First off, coercer mana flow still seems to be working fine for a single in the limited testing I've been able to do. Please note the caveats there. However, this change is a pretty big deal and will carry unintended consequences. Multi-group flow has been a standing capability of coercers since RoK, and by this point, all power drains have been balanced around having that capability. Take, for example, Klandicar. The massive power drains he throws out push two coercers with multi-group flow to their limits and still creates problems. While I do not mind the change in theory, and in theory, it's technically a buff, in practice, we need either a reduced cooldown on Mana Flow (half of what it is at the moment), a secondary ability that can actually fill the same role (Dare I suggest 2nd Flow? Joking, joking), or mobs with power drains need to be seriously reevaluated. Drains become much more punishing with this change.
IMO power drains should probably be looked at. Having to Mana Flow every 15 seconds isn't good gameplay, and even though double mana flowing was the thing most people did and never talked about, balancing around a bug that not everyone is aware of is brutal for those who didn't take advantage of it. IIRC it didn't necessarily apply to the Coercer's group; if you were in group 1, you were targeting someone in group 2, but you casted Mana Flow on group 3 (using ProfitUI's quick raid buttons was a popular option for this) it'd flow groups 2 and 3.
having never done Klandicar I don't know 100% but I doubt 2 fully capable coercers would be slacking on it with the bug of 2 grouping. more like mis communicated coercers and one probably not caring too much
Since the illusionist here thinks it's all good I think I will stick with power feed my own group from now on and let a mage group to deal with power drains all by themselves. It won't be any miscommunication problem. If guys won't bring power items with them to help themselves they on their own. I am going to become not much caring coercer. It's going to be fun fun fun... I wonder why this spell didn't get fixed when the criting was removed or few year ago while raids were still progressing through PoW? Would've been interesting to see how fights would go. Honestly speaking two groups mana feed was never OP and didn't really need any "fix".
It's been OP for a long time. They fixed it. Need to learn to deal with it, instead of whining on the boards. Most, if not all classes have had to deal with similar issues.
I've gone ahead and taken the liberty of bolding the only part of your reply that matters to this discussion. Now, on to a more productive bit. Mana Flow, yes, was bugged for 2-group flow, and yes, it really should have been fixed. However, after 5 XPacs and a "Feature Pack", six years of play time, it's become such an established fact of life that it's been accounted for in encounter designs. If we're fixing Flow now, either power drains in general need to be reevaluated, or there needs to be some compensation in the other parts of the coercer's toolkit. Because my post went WAY beyond the scope of this thread, I'm starting a new thread for it all.
I mean you can take it for whatever. I wasn't bashing you as a coercer or your guild. there just isn't any guild that has 2 fully functional communicating coercers operating manaflow 24/7. but hey man, whatever helps you sleep
Did you call for me ex-coer friend? But I truely feel this "fix" was 100% unneeded, its been in game for so many years, and the devs have also known how it was happening, there is just no way they couldn't have known (look at PoW, some of those fights were tough as heck without 2 coer's rotating manaflows on the raid), so the raid content was balanced around the fact coercers could do that, tbh the change should just be rolled back, for as it currently sits, its a terrible change. I would like to here some insight from Kander or Xelgad as to why the change was made, and if there are any plans to rebalance the current existing power drains in the game.
