CoE Signature Quest History and Lore Goodies (Spoilers)

You do realize that Faydwer is much, much larger than the explorable areas in EQ1, right? Also that the explorable area in Odus only represents about 1/3rd of the land mass?

As for it existing or not...then are you going to claim that there are unexplored, populated Combine cities in EQ2 just like in EQ1 because we haven't been to the bottom of the ocean of tears to say they ARN'T there?

And claiming that Taelosia is the size of Faydwer almost guarentees it didn't exist during the PoP era when the globe in Skyfire was suppose to be accurate. It shows a humongus continent that is larger than Antonica and Faydwer combined...and no other unexplored continents. This globe was supposidly created by the Ring of Scale and was accurate. At the beginning of Gates of Discord players assumed it was the fabled unknown continent but devs said that it was a chain of large islands, and not the unexplored continent.

Just as a ripple in time/space caused EQ1 and EQ2's futures to diverge, it also says it caused the past to diverge as well. Really, until we're given a reason to believe something from the post PoP world exists in EQ2, it doesn't. Even if it does, it can be completely different. Kinda like how EQ1 and EQ2 can both ignore what happend in EQOA and the Champions games with absolute impunity.

Those skyfire globes are just the same continents repeated because the texture they used was square and doesn't wrap correctly on a sphere

there's no mysterious islands on it except the main ones repeated and rotated

I'm sorry but everything you say lacks evidence to back it up. You bang on about the sky fire globe which has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Yes I know all about the rumors surrounding the "mystery continent" b/c I have followed EQs lore for over a decade. Your responses indicate you either have not or are confused on some points. You still argue that Taelosia was a string of islands even after looking at the map? Really? I guess Velious, Odus and Faydwer were as well. And even IF Faydwer is bigger now than it was in Eq (which it isn't) that still wouldn't explain why a continent would just no longer be there b/c of the time split.

Also, do I believe that there are the combine cities w/ Shissar at the bottom of the ocean? Absolutely I do. Why? Well because they set all that into motion WAY before the events in PoT chronologically. I also believe there are half dragon people still around in hiding and even the Alarans somewhere for the same reason. I never argued that the fate of all these people and places were different, obviously they were. Things didn't unfold in this universe like it did in the original; that was the point of creating this time split story in the first place from a developer standpoint.

I have read the lore from the games beginning many times over the years but it has always stated the universes diverged when Druzzil Ro reversed time, thus changing the FUTURE, not changing the PAST. Since none of this is real anyway, I am looking at it from an omniscient view of both games. That is where my opinion comes from. Perhaps you are viewing it through only your Eq2's character thus causing the difference of opinions. /shrug. Or maybe you are just Cussahorn in disguise!

So your saying that if a EQ1 dev does something that it naturally has to impact EQ2? That in fact our devs are lesser devs who need to consult with EQ1's dev team because everything in that game is more important that what they are doing here? Or do the EQ1 devs also need to obey any whim our producers make in saying that stuff happened in our past? The whole dirvergent realities thing described in the Book of Zebuxoruk is specifically so this sort of thing isn't necessary. That the EQ1 dev team is free to do anything they want to without impacting EQ2's development.

Yes, your looking at both dimensions from an omnisentient perspective and your making a laymen's mistake: expecting that something you can see in one dimension exists in the other simply because you see no evidence to the contrary. The reality of the situation is that EQ2's dev team is free to do what they want to do, not constrained by EQ1's choices. Anything added to EQ1 after the PoP expansion doesn't exist in EQ2 until it is specifically brought into EQ2 by our dev team. That includes changes to EQ1's past made by post PoP expansions. Otherwise EQ2 is a complete hostage of EQ1.

If this wasn't true, then we shouldn't have Living Tombs and Sul'dal in the Desert of Flames, we should have the ruins of Takish-Hiz and Sand Elves since they are both in aproximately the same location. You really can't mistake one for the other, a population of undead anashti'sul worshipers vs the reminents of the former high elven kingdom turned into sand creatures and their magical constructs. The fact of the matter is Lost Dungeons of Norrath came out after PoP and is not supported here in EQ2.

Seriously, how many times do I have to type the same thing? Are you even reading what I post? I have repeated numerous times that the developers CAN (!) do anything they want to with EQ2 and are not tied to EVENTS that happened after the time split. But until they SAY (or show) whats happened to these areas that we, as the omniscient player, KNOW existed in Norath's past then they are still there. Period. There, that is as simplified as I possibly can make it. You believe what you wish and I will do the same. Good day!

and I hope that the Drakkin/Shissar/Kedge stay long dead. in fact, if I recall, the Drakkin weren't 'from the past' they were a direct result of Venril or someone encroaching on thier hidden nest of all eggs. might be wrong on that point, but even if they were from the long past, I'd rather not get another race anytime soon.

the buried city under the ocean, and hell that ENTIRE EXPANSION, was nothing more then a cheap 'lets bring in fan favorites and shove them into the game somehow to make money' gimmick. the Kedge were clearly stated to be entirely eliminated down to Phinny as the result of his ritual with the blue crystal staff. oh yeah, and that was before the Combine Empire even existed. the Shissar were about as open to negotiation or deal making as the 2nd and first rallosian empires were. we know that NOTHING escapes the Greenmist when it's targetted. the only surviving Ogres were living in Freeport, (non-Rallosian Empire) or the ones that Cazic Thule 'spared' from guk that are still infected by the greenmist, only spared being devoured by becoming very VERY devout Cazicites. So the only spared ogres of the Rallosian Empire V.2 had to have a god specifically come and say basically 'serve me or die' and to make sure they stay loyal, they are living deposits of greenmist that's ready to eat them the second they upset Cazic again.

Now if they expand on Ethernere in the future, then I could see meeting the Kedge and Shissar there. that would at least make some sense. but norrath proper should remain Shissar free. but lets give the benefit of the doubt and say that one line of prophecy that elludes to the shissar is a planned event. I'd still rather it was something like the Shissar attempting to possess/cross over from the Ethernere to Norrath, rather then suddenly finding some hidden underwater atlantis that there just happened to be a set of shissar that the greenmist just happened to not care about killing that also just happened to be openminded to working with another race even though all evidence says if they had found 'atlantis' their first goal would be to crush it underfoot and rule it with an iron fist while turning every inhabitant into slave or necromancy experiment fodder.

you really think after enslaving the Iksar, they'd be even the slightest bit intimidated by humans? these guys thought they were demigods if not actual gods made flesh. that's part of what got the Greenmist sicced on them in the first place was that huge arrogance and frankly, power to back it up at least to mortal races. oh yeah and lets not forget that they were the undisputed masters of necromancy, which was during their time, was unknown to any other race.

every race that learned it, learned it after the iksar plundered it from the Shissar cities left dead from the greenmist. from there it traveled presumably to the Teir'dal, and then to the human world. they'd have conquered that city in a matter of days, hell maybe hours.

The drakkin were created by the Circle of Crystalwing who you could meet with when you first started everquest in TSS - they were originally dragons from the nest who infused different types of draconic powers into the six kidnapped humans each adopting a different type of power.

The buried sea and the resting place of Tsaph Katta is certainly one of my favourite zones in everquest it's architecture and lore that can be found in the city under siege is really something beautiful

Phinigel's blue crystal staff wasn't actually his item, it was stolen from the High Elf Sylen Tyrn above dagnors cauldron (after the elves had discovered faydwer) There was some additional lore added for the kedge in the velious expansion of everquest where it talked about kedge cities all over norrath including velious and that it was 'rumoured' there was only one kedge left after they were all wiped out world wide. There is a more direct statement from Al'Kabor about the kedge where he states Phinigel is the last remaining kedge who destroyed his brethren with use of a powerful spell to turn them permanent undead (but it does not state specifically the entire race or if they were in the process of death when he turned them). It's entirely possible that all of the kedge are not dead indeed it's quite possible that phinigels efforts were only localised in the kedge city he was part of.

As for the shissar it's quite possible they still exist either on norrath or have made plans around the explosion of luclin either to somehow remain there or escape it before it's destruction - we will have to wait.

Personally i'd love to see the buried sea expanded on in everquest 2 if not alone for Idol of Mortael storyline and everlings visit there

Phinigel's spell was suppose to make the entire race of Kedge immortal. What it did was it sucked the soul out of every member of the race and merged them with Phinigel and made him immortal. This was not what Phinigel wanted and he's spends all his time lamenting this horrible curse he invoked on his people. It is a very powerful story, and I'm sorry to hear the EQ1 devs chose to retcon the story. FYI: I don't remember seeing any undead Kedge before EQ2 came out and I stopped playing EQ1. If there are any, I'm sure they were introduced in an expansion after the split.

I can't say I know anything about the Burried Sea, but if it is part of Subtunaria then there is some bad news. A central portion of the Rending story says Norrath's geography was drastically changed by the collapse of Subtunaria and the oceans took years to settle. What exactly caused the Rending has never really been explained. My best theory is Subtunaria depended at least in part on divine intervention to prevent the collapse of its vast caverns. Over time the absence of the gods caused the divine intervention to weaken to the point that the Rending occured.

Regardless of what caused the Rending, the main point is that a subtunarian expansion is highly unlikely in EQ2 considering that the Rending supposidly destroyed the place along with several mountain ranges and most of the Karanas.

If you'd played the expansion you'd know the answers to your questions. They were there because the Combine rescued them, in an attempt to preserve the species (and no, the Greenmist cannot travel beneath the ocean, just like it cannot travel through the Grey). No, they weren't happy there. Yes, they rebelled (hence the destroyed outer edge of the city, and the Combine soldiers defending the inner city, and the quest lines that sent you into Shissar territory to put them down and foil their plans).

I thought SubTunaria refered only to that portion of the Underfoot which lay under the continent of Tunaria. It's collapse certainly shattered Tunaria, and the consequecnces of that would have global repercussions, but they did not radically change the geography of Faydwer, or Kunark (as an example). Velious was changed by the melting of the ice sheet, rather than by the collapse of SubTunaria, and Odus too is, (or was), relatively intact before it was sucked away. Of course, I could be mistaken.

All that lore is pretimesplit - kunark and velious lore

Katta Castrum is a lot like the Vasty Deep

Kunark's geography was quite changed; Cabilis is now mostly on a giant cliff, for instance. Warslik Woods was swept into the sea (I guess).

that's just it. your saying that the combine were able to preserve the spieces by taking them underwater. okay I can buy that. nevermind that the shissar prolly would have killed the pesky humans in the first place at the attempt, believing they could figure their own way of countering the Greenmist, but maybe fear might have worked in the combines favor, okay. they bring them to atlantis, and the shissar naturally try to conquer it, using a magic that no race outside their own at the time had access to or knowledge of...and they fail how? dumb luck? every combine soldier that falls is a shissar soldier. every commander that dies is now a shissar informant of the cities defenses and tactics. the shissar forces increase exponentially. you die, your a necropet now. everyone you kill, becomes a necropet. everyone they kill, becomes a necropet. and we know that necros can command more then 1 undead at a time. hell my necro can command like 14 at once. Fear would have done wonders to help the Shissar win.

and yeah, retconning what happened with phinny to say 'oh wait, not ALL of them were zapped...we just somehow managed to find/save the last bit'...ruins his story. that was his whole deal. he had obviously looked for survivors and hunted for them who knows how long before settling in Kedge Keep. and he just never found this one group? the one group never wondered what happened to the rest of them? hell never thought to get pissed enough to assault Phinny before they realized he was immortal?

but I'm sure there's some tidbit in there that says oh they looked, found ruined cities, and got scared and decided to isolate themselves or something rather then find out what happened...until the Combine came along and gave them a barney hug of lets be friends so they weren't killed on sight as a potential threat by a isolated society living in fear of whatever might have killed the rest of their kind.

Zhisza and his rebels probably would have killed the Combine had they had access to castrum but you have to remember that they had already they spent two thousand years in the underfoot at empotith before they found out about the place where tsaph katta had been taken to. Their time there hadn't seen much growth of the remaining non-luclin Shissar, no doubt from other resident threats in the underfoot so they weren't really in a state for war (yet). Plus the combine loyalists had always been about inclusion of other races and no doubt some of the sphinx's, kedge and shissar were a great help in extending their already vast knowledge that ensured the safe preservation of their leader and escape from seru. Long enough at least for the shissar to be given the location of the combine citadel and then, from inside, plot their takeover.

Also, it's not retconning when the velious (in game pre pop) lore, written quite some time after the original beta/alkabor kedge lore (non-canon) - extended the story by stating there are more kedge cities as far as the lands of velious (which was cut off by the frigid barrier for such a long time) Also, the other available lore (maps of myrist, non-canon) only mentions Phinigels use of the spell to gain power at the temple of prexus within the city of kedge keep and how his efforts were a failure. It doesn't state he then went to other cities and repeated the task. I highly doubt he continued on a mission of destruction with his inferior powers to annihalate all other cities when he is such a neophyte himself. No, i would say Phinigel is just one of those many tragic tales norrath has to offer and that sure, he accidentally annihalated all the kedge in kedge keep but the rumours surrounding him have far outweighed true fact on the entirety of the kedge race.

It's funny how the other beta lore like the War of the Broken Crown is dismissed so easily yet the Relic of Brell Serilis kedge lore is not

I don't remember a whole bunch of clifts and butes in Gfay or Lfay in EQ1. They are all over the place in EQ2. Orc Hill in EQ1 was a gentle little rise...in EQ2 it has an abrupt cliff face and is a huge mound. The inactive druid ring next to Kelethin was at ground level in EQ1, in EQ2 it is on top of one of those butes. I think there is plenty of evidence that the Rending had an impact on Faydwer. The same can be said for Kunark. With Odus sucked into Ulteria there is no way for us to say what impact the Rending had on Odus.
Velious, we really can't say what the full impact of the Rending was. Especially since the Dragons did some remodeling quite recently when they caused half of the Waking Lands to rise far above its previous level to seperate Skyshrine from Kael. Not to mention the complete destrution of Western Wastes, Cobalt Scar and probably Siren's Cove.

I am aware that EQ1 added an Underwater Combine city that had a population of Kedge in it. That was most definately added after the split.

I'm starting to dislike calling it a "Time Split". It isn't just that future events in EQ2 differ from EQ1, continuity between the two games is different after PoP. You can't say that our Broken Skull Rock is anything like the EQ1 version. The EQ1 version is huge, ours is a big rock without a huge bay/cavern. EQ1 has Tak-ish and sand elves beneath the Desert of Ro. We've got the Silent City and Living Tombs in the same location. There isn't a lot you can point to in EQ2 that contradicts EQ1 (after all, why would you do this on purpose?) but there is enough to say the two existances are seperate.

It was, but the quote you just made was me refering to my post on pre-pop kedge lore in everquest and on the everquest website before 2002

I think you can definitely say that in EQ2 Takish'Hiz is certainly under the sands of ro and similiarly i see no reason why the silent city can't also exist far under the sands of south ro or areas of the oasis of marr in everquest 1 just as equally

Its impossible to remember Lore from EQ1 that was created after the time split if you stopped playing EQ1 when EQ2 came out. So telling us to "remember" what happend post PoP isn't going to help.
FYI: Having the Combine have a city in the Underfoot messes with EQ2's story. Dartain spent several hundred years there becomming nigh-immortal and setting up defenses for the Seal before he returned to Norrath. Dartain returns to Norrath because the Seal is weakening and he needs to find more powerful magic to prevent the Seal from collapsing and endangering Norrath.

It isn't a retcon to say there are other cities. It is to say that there are any living Kedge there as Phingle was suppose to have absorbed the ENTIRE RACES SOUL. If he doomed the entire race the first time he did the ritual, why would he need to repeat the act in other cities? Also, if the race wasn't utterly destroyed, then why didn't they repopulate the oceans in the thousands of years since this was done? Phingle is *ancient*.

Phingle was also the high priest of Prexus and the Kedge were considered to be a magically advanced race. Insulting his skill doesn't make your argument stronger. I suppose since The Hole was an accident then all those heratics in Paineel must be a bunch of country bumpkins that should give up magic and take up pig farming? Greig's failure marks him as an obvious incompetent. Mayong's various failed experiments, thousands of years worth of them obviously mark him as mentally deficient and a true credit to his race for the tenacity to overcome his obvious short commings by continuing to fail and fail again till he stumbles upon greatness? And that fool Innoruukk. How many spells has he cast that had unintended side effects? Bumbling idiot obviously. He can't even make a proper race, he should obviously be shamed out of the Pathenon.

I agree with this. Some people believe simply b/c we haven't seen it in EQ2 it can't possibly exist. The time split created a new timeline beginning in the PoTime, thus creating (at least) 2different futures with differing paths chosen. It did NOT change the past in any official documentation I have ever seen so yes, Takish Hiz is still there unless we are told/shown otherwise. And good point about The Silent City in EQ1; I agree with that also.

The combine city wasn't in the underfoot, that was Empotith, a shissar city built thousands of years before the combine were around

Phinigel absorbing their entire soul was the complete point of my post regarding pre-buried sea lore - there is only reference to it in non-canon beta lore and the maps of myrist which has always been considered non canon on eq1 forums due to it's inconsistencies. Because of this, there is only some very few pieces of canon lore on kedge in pre-pop everquest - an npc talking about rumours surrounding phinigel and the later lore added at velious about more kedge cities existing. So it's perfectly fine for more kedge to exist as there was no confirmation outside of non-canon material to exactly what he did and the fate of the race.

When further discussing the examination of beta, external material & post-pop lore, i mentioned the story on him in the maps of myrist where it states he was 'too undisciplined' to control the power he had attempted to gain as a sorcerer of the autropos family