Cleric Group Reactive Heals no longer share triggers between the group members. Decreased the base group reactive trigger amount to 3 per group member. Reactive heals will no longer trigger if the target is not below 90% current max health and would not be reduced below 90% max HP on the attack.
So you need to adjust the as that allows a chance at increased triggers on reactives since you just capped it at 3....huge nerf to an already broken class...at face value that is. Shall give a touch of testing to verify but the aa for sure needs changed since you didn’t mention anything about it.
From the verbiage, i would THINK the decrease of BASE triggers to 3 indicates that the AA that increases trigger count would still be working, however would of course require testing.
The 90 % thing will end being a nerf, I think. The change to reactives count is inconsequential. In raids surge(persistent incoming damage) in fights with any meaningful damage ticks approximately every second. So , reactives will be still down in 3 seconds. That addresses nothing .
@quisling True that - same happens for all my Keep me up spells (as guardian), surges burn them off and then they are not available when you would actually want them.
Just another way that furies will be even more fotm. I was going to say something about the law of unintended consequences, but perhaps they aren’t unintended.
This actually increases the number of triggers overall....as before the templar one had 9 base triggers plus the 3 bonus from the focus effect shared across six people for a total of 12 across everyone. So on beta it reads as 6 triggers(which includes the 3 bonus from the focus effect), when I respec for the chance at double triggers, it gives 9 when that procs. But with just the 6 per a person that's 36 across the group which is 3x the triggers it had before. Not all surge damage ticks take people below 90%(or would take them that low without a reactive) so it's hard to say. It'll depend on where in the stack it checks for this. Since for example wards apply first, if it's not triggering because wards cover enough to avoid the person dropping below 90% then this will be a good change as it'll end up only being triggered when needed versus getting triggered all the time. Regardless each person now has an individual 6 triggers to cover the 10 second period(7.5 for the reuse plus the 2.5 cast time) which is way better than 12 for the entire group in that same time period. I think this change will end up being really good, but it's hard to say without being able to test it in raid
Of course you do. 3/= 6 unless you get lucky. Having your reactives not react is not an improvement . Having the tank not use MORE of your reactives is NOT an improvement.
Okay so I just went and solo pulled the trash at the beginning of the first heroic: If I had more than 2 mobs the group reactive alone was not enough to keep me alive. However with just the two ebon lashers on me, the group reactive was sufficient (I did occasionally run out of triggers but was able to recast it before dying). When I cast my group ward, that seemed to prevent the reactive from triggering when the group ward would eat enough of the damage. When I cast divine waters, the group reactive triggered like normal, so it seems if a hot would cover the heal the reactive does still trigger and heal first. When I cast divine guidance after casting the group reactive, the group reactive only trigged when DG couldn't it seemed, however if the group reactive was cast after DG it would sometimes trigger ahead of DG....I need to do more testing on this to confirm...It was harder to tell. As a note DG did not get the only triggers if target is below 90% thing. When I cast both group reactive and vital intercession on myself they alternated which one triggered. With group reactive, vital intercession, and Seraph's restoration all on me it cycled through them on triggers. I really like this(it was really hard to tell if this was happening until I only had one mob on me because of all the hits), So far this seems like a really good change, it'll be interesting to see in raids(I might do some looking in ACT later to see if I can tell how this would work on some fights).
What do you mean 3 does not equal 6 unless lucky? The double adds 3 more triggers to it, but I have 6 base because of the 3 bonus from focus effect which are always on. The change is making it only trigger when needed, instead of triggering on damage that barely does anything and doesn't hurt to let someone sit with that much less health.
First, you’re right, instead of 3 total procs on live, it looks like it adds 3 to each group member. Second, still don’t like the 90% thing, I don’t let my group members sit at less than max health if I can help , especially my tank. Third, why would you cast your group reactives with DG up?
I was casting it to test how they work together.....so we could see what other heals prevent damage from counting as triggering the 90% thing.... The group sitting at 92% health instead of 100% for the second it takes to get hit again is way better than not having any triggers cause they get used on minor damage, plus you can always hit a direct heal or something if its really bothering me
Still testing the changes. Some straight forward suggestions: With the changes to our reactives with the addition of a 90% threshold before they decide to trigger (something that may look good on paper but in practice will leave cleric's with an unintended penalty to healing) please consider increasing the duration of all our reactives by 5 - 10 seconds to compensate for the delay with the imposed threshold mechanic. Currently, one of our Prestige abilities/buffs, Divine Assistance, grants 36% chance to double up trigger count on Seraph's Restoration and our single target & group reactives. However, this passive buff does not include any focus effect added triggers and only affects base reactive amounts. Please take a look and change this passive buff to include focus effect/buffs that increase total trigger amounts. This will slightly increase our capability slightly especially considering the new changes. In addition, please consider the addition of Focus Intervention to be affected by this passive ability as well. Healing Fate (lvl 116) added a group potency buff for the new tier of spells however our Prestige replacement, Divine Fate(raid version), did not add any buff to it. Please take a look and add a similar buff to our raid replacement ability.
I agree, it is entirely counterintuitive for any healer especially a raid healer to leave any member of their group at less than max health.
This is such a huge change to clerics that this shouldn't be rushed in a random GU. This needs to be completely tested and thought through before making it to live.
It looks like the 90% threshold has eliminated the tiny procs that were eating up my reactives within a second of being cast. I haven't gone into any raid zones on beta yet, but so far in heroics they proc in a more meaningful way. If they perform the same way in raid, I will be extremely pleased.
In a group, that might work that way, if youre the only one healing. In a raid, the healing folks do from 90-100 really is the lionshare of the healing. If youre in a group with, say...a fury....you will spend a significant amount of time, casting your group reactive for zero effect. You will be wasting your time. With 6 procs per group member, it will actually give you enough procs to make make your group reactives useful most of the time, as long as that 90% goes away.
The question is do we care more about heal parse being higher, when heal parse doesn't mean too much, or more about having our heals heal in a useful manner. If your group reactive never triggers, you can wait the whole 30 seconds before recasting it....casting a spell once every 30 seconds is not wasting a significant amount of time. In raids looking at surge damage, most the tics on higher end mobs are over the 10% health threshold anyways so it will be triggering anyways, if there's not wards in the group. However I think a smaller threshold maybe better, which I'll get into below. This. I've been looking through raids on act to get an idea of how it'll work in raids, but I think it'll end up being a little better overall, though it may reduce heal parse numbers it should make reactives more useful. Looking in ACT from raids, there are times where someone in my group uses 2 triggers of my group reactive in a second on live during raid, where each individual hit is below the new threshold, but combined would be over. So that would now only be one trigger of a reactive instead of 2. Looking at the last time we killed creator, 5% of the triggers on my group reactive were hits that were under 10,000 health, yes 10k health. One trigger only healed 700 health. 10% of the triggers where over 10k health but under 20,000,000(20 million). I think its very reasonable for reactive to not be triggering on that junk. (and this is a fight where it's hard to maintain anyways due to power) Looking at the blob(which has the highest incoming damage, and is where I use my group reactive the most): 36% the triggers of my group reactive healed for over 100,000,000(100 mil) which under the new system would have procced for people with health around 1 bil. (only a couple of hte triggers were right at that threshold, most were well over so using that as a good baseline). Another 8% were between 50 mil and 100 mil, which means it would take a second hit to trigger the reactive once the update hits. Another 36% were between 30 and 50 mil..........this is the range where I start questioning the threshold....most people would need 3 to 4 hits in this range(assuming no hots) to trigger the reactive. Which means(assuming no hots) they will be sitting lower health for 3-5 seconds waiting on each tics to trigger the reactive. Looking at this I'm thinking 95% may be a better threshold. At this threshold, most of the time, reactive will trigger at least every other hit(assuming no hots running). People sitting slightly below 100% health for 2 seconds is way better than 3-5. Reactive triggers would still not get used up by the super tiny hits that waste them. Also, this may just be me but I'd be much more comfortable with people's health sitting at 96% than 91%, so even when they are sitting down health till the next tic of damage it's not as big a deal.
Once again, casting spells that have no chance of proccing is a waste of time. I dont give a crap about parses. I do, however not like to waste my time. Have you raided in beta? I have. Last night on 8 name fights, 23(ish) minutes of fighting, my group reactive procced 281 times. On beta raids, in 12 named fights, with 56 minutes of fighting my reactives procced 181 times. The correct answer is never "oh, lets not allow that to heal". I have no idea how long YOU'VE been around, but I've heard that silly song before, and i dont wanna hear it again. Let's do some math. You do realize that, at least for me in raids, 10% means someone has to take more 140million points of damage before my reactives proc. That's ridiculous.
The number of triggers alone isn't helpful, which is why I was breaking it down. If it triggers 10 times on a cast but only heals 700 health on each of those triggers, it's not healing anything worthwhile that worthwhile. I still don't want my reactive triggering if it's only going to heal that little.... That's why I proposed a solution that still prevents those useless triggers but would allow more triggers to go off overall. I'm trying to find a balance between not healing for very much because all triggers get used on hits that are close to 0 and having too few triggers being used due to the threshold. There is a balance point in there, just needs to be found.
