Class imbalance

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Igochan, Jul 23, 2022.

  1. Igochan Active Member

    The class balancing is the worst by far in the 15+ years I've been playing.
    I don't understand how the developers have let the difference between classes with more dps multiply by 10 or 20 those with less dps.
    I don't understand how the developers have left abandoned, literally, classes like brigands, bruisers, guardians or inquisitors, among others.
    I don't understand how the developers don't realize that this great imbalance is the main cause of player abandonment and that in a short time it will end up killing the game.
  2. Ayodi Active Member

    Bruisers, Brigands, Guardians, & Inquisitors have very specific roles to play and none of that includes DPS on a level that rivals DPS Classes. It's okay not to have a handle on that. The four - very different - classes you chose I have seen as favorites of many accomplished players. I do not see it as the Dev's job to cookie cutter every arch type to produce identical DPS.
    -The Ayodi
    Twyla likes this.
  3. Tanto Done, finished, gone.

    You're missing the point. Current mechanics make DPS extremely important to 3 out of 4 of those classes, and none of them can deliver it. It's not about cookie-cutter classes, it's about altering the mechanics and then only adjusting some classes to be able to be effective in them.

    And brigands have been useless since combat mitigation was introduced. Their debuffs have never been scaled to keep up with stat inflation, so their actual role no longer exists. They're a pure dps class (when you remove every other role, that's all that's left) which can't dps. The OP's complain is valid and your dismissal of it shows a lack of knowledge on the subject.
    Arclite and Igochan like this.
  4. Igochan Active Member

    You and I must be playing different games.
    In my game the Brigands are DPS, well rather they should be DPS because right now they are not.
    Bruisers and Guardians are tanks, but almost nobody wants to play tanks because the dps difference between dps classes and tanks is getting bigger and bigger. That's why mechanics have been invented to make it necessary to carry a tank in the group, but even so nobody plays them, there are only monks, berserkers and crusaders.
    Inquistors, or templars, are armored healers, but raids are only looking for furies. Time before, furies healed much less than those classes, now it doesn't matter.

    The problem with all this is that the dps difference between some DPS classes and non-DPS classes is getting higher and higher. It used to be that a ranger could do twice the dps of a guardian, but the guardian certainly had other missions that made up for that damage difference. When the difference of dps increases to 20 times from one to the other, there is nothing to make up for that difference. By that I don't mean that Guardians have to do as much damage as Rangers, as you, and many, seem to interpret. What I am saying is that when the dps difference is so high, no other "specific role" can compensate for such a difference in dps.

    And I find it amazing that many people, and all the developers, don't realize that this is killing the game.
    Jesaine likes this.
  5. Ayodi Active Member

    We all are limited by our own experience. Clearly yours differs from mine. It is not, nor has it ever been a tank's JOB to DPS. Raid groups who ask an Arch Type to do a JOB outside of their design, are not doing their own work well enough. Blanket statements supporting every class be given the same attendance award DPS demonstrates any raid experience you have had is with raids who cannot generate adequate DPS with the proper classes.
    -the Ayodi
  6. Ayodi Active Member

    Pointing at how the current Dev's have broken from original design proves my point. You say Brigs are impaired from what they can contribute Because of Current game posture levied by Devs. Yes. I agree. However the fact the Devs broke it has nothing to do with my point. Brigand does not mean Ranger nor does it mean Assassin. No one is out of touch & if anything, your game memory seems to be married to the current expansion. Having seen the scope of the entire game, you are completely right in the Devs being totally out of bounds on Brig.
    -the Ayodi
  7. Arclite Well-Known Member

    It has never been a tank's job to do dps. Correct on all accounts if the game ever stuck to that definition of tanks. Tank cannot tank if they are not able to do sufficient dps in order to hold aggro, period. I don't care who you are and what guild you play in because if you can hold aggro without doing dps then there is a high chance that you are in your guild hall bashing a dummy.

    The OP and the rest of the game's community has had the same qualms about class balancing. Every class has been reduced to the amount dps they can do. There was once a time when content benefited from debuffs from certain classes and made encounters a lot more manageable and this was the highlight of the game with having many varied classes. This was taken out years ago deliberately because of the reduced number of developers and general shift towards sustaining the game on minimal development time.

    -the Arclite
  8. Mezaka Active Member


    When you also add in the fact that some raid encounters have timers,or certain dps threshold checks to make in order to be successful, it all becomes a dps game, even down to your healers. As mechanics have evolved, some classes have benefited far more than others, and that disparity seems to keep growing each expansion.
    Igochan and Riverbear like this.
  9. Igochan Active Member

    You insist on saying that I am asking for tanks to do as much dps as others, and I have already told you that I am not asking for that. What I am asking for is that the difference, aim, the difference in damage between dps and non dps classes should not be as high as it is now. The difference.
    Riverbear likes this.
  10. Smashey Well-Known Member

    Until we see a stats and system squish class balance will be utopia.

    Changing FoTM every once and again is also great buisness when people need to betray or swap classes and fill out a new knowledge book with at least grandmasters.
    Bhayar likes this.
  11. Tanto Done, finished, gone.

    I dunno, I think more and more people these days are unsubbing and uninstalling when their class falls off the top.
    Ayodi and Arclite like this.
  12. Smashey Well-Known Member

    I am yet to see anyone raiding in the last couple of years actually quit. They are hooked and usually return within the same expansion pumping out another few hundred dollars to catch up. The remaining players will accept anything.
  13. Riverbear Active Member

    "I am yet to see...." er, no one should debate that.
    However we have seen dozens leave, never to return.
    More often than not (>51% or gtr) - it is RL agro, yet many released themselves on their own recog. feeling as though EQII had nothing left to offer them.
    It is not uncommon, btw, to see raid guilds collapse.
    Certes there are many causes, yet to raiders the cost of returning is insignificant should they chose to do so.
    I am confident the devs do not figure-in the dicey estimate of returns when they cook half the player base.
  14. Tanto Done, finished, gone.

    Well I did. I mean I still hold this game in huge affection for nostalgia purposes and would return in a heartbeat if I could be convinced it was going to be worth my time. I still care deeply about the game and want nothing more than for things to improve. But they haven't and likely won't, and I'm sticking to my guns. I'm finding RL keeping me far too busy now anyway tbh.

    I do agree with you though, about the players accepting anything. Some of the real forum/discord tough guys talk a lot but they were so willing to betray to ranger at the start of VoV instead of burning the place down in rage as they should have, that really made me lose all respect for them. I'm 100% comfortable with my decision to quit when I did, it was the absolutely only appropriate course of action given the actions of the mechanics dev in the run up to VoV launching.
    Ashandra and Priority like this.
  15. Priority Well-Known Member

    I quit in March. At least 2 others I know quit within 30 days of that. This is from the #1 raid guild. Plenty of us are quitting over the poor itemization, horrendous class balance, and bleak outlook on improvement.

    Congratulations though. You got me to post for the first time in 4 months. : )
    AOE1, Ayodi, Tanto and 2 others like this.
  16. Ashandra Well-Known Member

    I would like to add we lost a whole raid guild worth of long time raiders after classes remained broken over several expacs . The horrendous mind numbing grind for a player to be current ie: runes /buffs/resolve/overseers/mount levelling/familiar levelling only to find your class is broken also was detrimental especially when to change a class involves you to do a significant amount again .
    AOE1, Jesaine, Riverbear and 3 others like this.
  17. Ayodi Active Member

    We are all happy when we make bail !

    -the Ayodi
  18. Igochan Active Member

    And don't forget when you upgrade a spell to ancient only to discover that the effect is exactly the same as in the previous version. Before they just didn't release a new version of the spell, now it seems they don't know how to do it anymore.
    AOE1 likes this.
  19. AOE1 Well-Known Member

    When they came out with that first trunk of free armor so you could do that expansion, that was a telling moment that things had gone crazy. That was a first and has been a constant since. Instead of deleting the stat bloat needed by player classes and ridiculous hp on mobs, they just add a new trunk of new armor and now with new adornments. Never ending idiocy, imo