Chaotic Leech

Discussion in 'General Beta Discussion' started by Mermut, Oct 18, 2018.

  1. Mermut Well-Known Member

    All the heroic zones have a 'mysterious' debuff called Chaotic Leech that applies as soon as you enter.
    It's description reads:
    "Disrupts natural energies, reducing wards and healing to those afflicted."

    So, I did a few tests.
    In the library:
    Mystic Ancestral Ward: 212m
    Warden Constant Currents: 108m

    Ruins of Rathe (T1 heroic)
    Mystic Ancestral Ward: 28m
    Warden Constant Currents: 28m


    As a healer, this is troubling for a number of reasons:
    1) The 'reduction' to heals is not specified in the debuff. We know what offensive stats we have to over come, because the mobs "Planar Guard" gives us the numbers. But the stats the healers have to deal with are hidden.
    2) The reduction is huge.. but we don't know if it's a flat reduction, fervor effectiveness reduction, potency? crit bonus? Is it done before or after the fact? What, exactly, can we do to increase our effectiveness the most? We don't know.. because of 1) from above...
    3) The small test with the warden and mystic implies that one of two things are happening with this debuff
    3a) There are hard caps on heals/wards in these zones, so they will never, ever get easier to heal, no matter what gear the healer does or doesn't have/get. If true, this is extremely depressing as a healer. Never actually getting better/more effective no matter how much effort/gear you spend/get suggests there is no reason to put in the effort or get the gear. :(
    3b) Different heals and/or heal classes are affected differently.. so some classes may be hit harder by the debuff then other classes.


    I'll be honest, I'm not happy with the idea of an artificial nerf to healer effectiveness, but that pales beside my feelings about the fact that the information about how and how much is hidden.

    Edit: poped my warden into T2 zone and the ward went down to 22m... so as the zones get harder and mobs, presumably, start hitting harder, healers appear to get even LESS effective :(
  2. Quigly Active Member

    Does the ward go down if you remove potency? Perhaps it is like the hidden potency mitigation from PoP. Toning down the power of all heals might actually even the playing field among healers combined with bleedthrough. Ward stacking isn't useless if wards are small enough to break before expiring, and HoT might not necessarily be complete heals every tick.

    EDIT: would be great to see a state of healing overview that explains how all these changes are meant to work together so we can provide useful feedback
    Rosyposy and Sigrdrifa like this.
  3. Mermut Well-Known Member

    It's clearly not just a potency issue. The mystic ward was almost twice the size of the warden ward in Myrist but they were both the same size inside Ruins of Rathe.

    But you've illustrated my main point.. the lack of information we have about the debuff.
    I'm realistic enough to know that the huge healing debuff is likely already 'a done deal'.. I'm hoping we can get transparency on the debuff so we, as healers, can either take steps to maximize our healing output... or worst case have it confirmed that it is out of our control.
    Rosyposy likes this.
  4. Gillymann Well-Known Member

    Smells a bit like some kind of a hard cap.

    More hidden mechanics. Yay.
    Rhodris likes this.
  5. Quigly Active Member

    Ah, yes i didn't notice till a second read through that it wasn't scaling based on the original size of the ward, which you illustrated. That is indeed troubling at first glance...
  6. Cunning Member

    The fact that a 200 and 100 Mill Ward both dropped to 28 sounds like a hard cap. Which is just as troublesome as % based heals. Actually worse in some ways. If they are heading for a version of the potency mit but for heals, at least we could eventually gear enough to get ahead. If it's hard capped, that doesn't sound very fun.
  7. Gillymann Well-Known Member

    Will be interesting to see what actual heal parses look like.

    Maybe it's just some kind of cap on wards.

    RIP shamans.
  8. Mermut Well-Known Member

    It's not just wards. Other heals are vastly reduced too. It's just hard to see by how much since you have to be damaged to take a heal. I don't have definitive numbers for heals, because I can't tell what, exactly the 'max' a heal is in the library because hp totals are too low.
    The first hit of my warden's Slyvan Bloom XI GM hit for 31m in the heroic instance (I swapped in/out of my crafting gear to have something TO heal). The max theoretical size of heals are bigger that that of wards.. but that doesn't help much when determining reduction.. because can't GET what the actual max is.
  9. Gillymann Well-Known Member

    Why bother to document spells, abilities, and stats when they are going to be mitigated with hidden mechanics?

    Might as well just document every spell/ability/stat with: "Kinda does x effect except when mitigated by an algorithm you will never see."
    Tkia and Tekka like this.
  10. Loke New Member

    If it's a hard cap that's probably a game ender, can't imagine any priests sticking around in that environment. Game could possibly continue with merc healers.
    Rosyposy likes this.
  11. Gninja Developer

    No one has seen how its supposed to work yet due to beta server issues.The healing changes are a work in progress. Don't flip tables just yet :)
  12. Monstuhr Active Member

    Most people who know me will tell you I am a fairly level headed person and tend to give the devs the benefit of the doubt on changes. But this does seem a little overly punitive to shaman. Not only will this new detrimental effect cause a flat reduction in the ability for everyone to heal, but then on top of that you are adding in considerable unwardable damage with the new bleedthrough changes.

    It seems to me trying to balance both of these effects at the same time will be quite the task. I really hope that these finalized effects are in beta early enough for everyone to test. It seems that the combination of these two abilities will make it exceptionally difficult for shaman to heal content.

    Now, this may be intended. Perhaps you are trying to require two healers to heal every group. I really hope that is not the direction the game is going...
    Rosyposy likes this.
  13. Clintsat Active Member


    We want to help and make sure it works but it would really help to understand what the goals are of the changes and what the expected outcome should look like. I realize that there are going to be some that don't like it and you don't want to argue the strategy...but it will be really hard to help test if we don't know what good is supposed to look like.
    Rosyposy likes this.
  14. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Is there any intent to have the debuff actually tell us what it is doing?
  15. Alarra Well-Known Member

    Plrease give us numbers and what should be the expected behaviour, then we can test whether the expected behaviour is happening and whether such expected behaviour enables us to do the zones.

    More details PLEEEEEEASE.;)
    Mermut and Rosyposy like this.
  16. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    Why add heal limiters, potency/sda avoidance to mobs instead of just limiting stats you're giving to players.

    It feels like a over complicated system, that is quite confusing.
  17. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Any eta/word on when this will be fixed/adjusted/whatever so we know when to test it and/or when tests will give meaningful results?
    This is kind of a 'big deal' for healers....

    The lack of patch notes means we, as players, have no idea what changes go in from day to day....
  18. Errrorr Well-Known Member


    Could we get an explanation of how it is meant to work? It's kind of a big thing for people.
    Mermut likes this.
  19. Flatline Active Member


    Gninja, you been here for how long? you should KNOW its what happens when things arent explained, and put public. people go with the worst possible option.

    Im sure that eventually you guys will take the time and explain the logic and hte mechanics behinds it, however till you do so you KNOW it will be "the sky is falling" ... and right fully so, as its all a guessing game.

    I would advice using the time to actually explain the changes and why and how they affect game play, because EQ2 lives of its loyal population, and is as far as i know - correct me if im wrong - not a game with a hugely growing population, ergo logic would suggest to not "fud" (Fear, uncertainty and doubt) the population that is playing.

    In all respect!
    Me :) the slack tank
  20. Thand Well-Known Member

    Unless they want tp mask sure the heroic zone are the same challenge and take the same time for a heroic group as as for a t4 raid equiped group. I really hope they do not add Hard caps for heal and dps to all zones.

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