Changing Melee Auto Attack

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Neiloch, May 24, 2016.

  1. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    All auto attacks need to be changed to work like wand auto attack if lag is not removed entirely and indefinitely in the near future (3 months at the most).

    There needs to be a large change that will help with lag drastically, such as one or more of the following:
    • new hardware
    • removing all item procs
    • re-tuning swarm pets to not require both defensive and offensive calculations like players
    • severely lowering the amount of Dots
    If not, then all auto attacks need to be changed to work like wand auto attacks in that they do not interfere with the casting of abilities and vice versa. Even if this change to auto attack was enacted it would still be a good idea to implement some of the aforementioned changes.

    Current melee/ranged auto attack serves as a "lag multiplier" for those who depend on it for procs and DPS.
    For example roughly 80% of the time my myth/ethereal procs trigger off my auto attack despite the fact I am using attack abilities much more frequently. Obviously this is a large variable for considering content balance even before ethereal procs. The random occurrence and severity of lag makes it nearly impossible to account for with any consistency for the purpose of content balance other than the fact it ALWAYS negatively impacts 'melee auto attackers' in their performance.
    Pixilicious, Alenna, Ruckus and 10 others like this.
  2. Nkito Well-Known Member

    why ARE wands handled differently anyway, what is the reasoning behind it? melee are using their melee/ranged weapons to inflict combat arts just the same as wands cast spells.
  3. Xevran Well-Known Member

    I recall the devs at one point saying that they were going to change melee auto attack to work like spell auto attack. Then they never did it, I'm not really sure why.
  4. Talathionwins Active Member

    Don't really play much anymore but have played for 10+ years, but I will say that its a highly skill thing and keeps the game a little fun (when I play) because it takes skill to time your autoattacks. Its not random, its based off your weapon and attack speed and is mostly consistent.

    Also, if the mentioning above happened. There would be no reason to play this game over FFXIV or WoW. Since they are far superior games in every single way. The only thing that makes EQ2 remotely interesting is cool gear like item effects and procs.

    Its basicly shooting yourself in the foot. I don't have lag and I never did back then when the game first came out and even when I had 600% double attack chance (attacking 6 times.) I still didn't have lag.

    Just get a slower weapon if your having issues, but also learn to time your autoattacks or switch to an easier to play class like mage (not enchanters because those are also a melee class!). That is my two suggestions.

    But removing the delay in melee auto attack would just make melee classes far too easy to play. You 'have' to time your auto attacks around your combat arts and not just mash them like the hulk.
  5. Thechurchofgixx Active Member

    But who times auto attacks anymore ca's do more damage now.
  6. Xevran Well-Known Member

    What skill does it take to watch a meter go up and not attack while the meter is full? I mean something like Dark Souls requires skill, watching a meter go up and not pressing a button doesn't require skill.
    Lucus likes this.
  7. Therein Active Member

    As you don't play much anymore, you don't understand the issues at hand.

    It's not a matter of skill anymore when it comes to auto attacks, it's a matter of "how long is the server going to hang up auto attacks?". Personally, I hate this idea to fix auto attacks this way, but there is simply NO OTHER WAY TO GO ABOUT IT without getting rid of the enormous amounts of lag in the current game.

    Personally, I hate the idea of this change because it removes the skill and a large play style from the scout classes, however, there is no other way around it without solving lag, and since that has been an ongoing problem since the SF era of the game, I don't see it ever being fixed, it just gets worse from update to update.

    On a lag free fight, mages are weighing in 20-30% dps over scouts right now, add in lag, and they are doubling us and it needs to be addressed.
    -Soteria-, Lucus, Jrel and 2 others like this.
  8. Livejazz Well-Known Member

    Seriously, thanx for brightening my day with a funny.
    Prissetta likes this.
  9. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    Spamming CA's delays auto (and melee auto trying to go off interferes with CA's casting in high lag) thus losing damage from melee auto attack while wand auto attacks remain 100% intact. And like i mentioned a large portion of procs trigger from melee auto attacks especially compared to CA's so delaying it also results in lower output from procs buffs and/or raw damage.

    It's a lot more than just auto DPS, it can't just be dismissed without sizable losses.
    How nice for you. Try to exercise some empathy and realize lots of other people do. "I dont have that problem so don't change anything." is the epitome of selfishness.

    Missing the point entirely. No matter how slow the weapon is it LAGS. This is not a timing or skill issue, its a 'auto attack isnt going off when it should' issue.

    I'd love to keep it in but since even after big changes lag is still here to stay, so other measures need to be taken. Either additional measures like I laid out or simply removing melee auto attack from the 'lag' equation.
    Ruckus, -Soteria-, Lucus and 8 others like this.
  10. Lea Plath Active Member

    Yeah, there needs to be some sort of change. No matter how good you at, and how good your computer is, it is all server side that is causing the issues.

    There also needs to be something to bring auto attack back into line. I know devs don't want too much of parse being autoattacks but that is what makes scout different from mages.
    Livejazz, Jrel and Prissetta like this.
  11. Talathionwins Active Member

    I didn't have a problem with my old old computer. If you still have lag why not spend a few bucks and upgrade your potato?

    Also, it sounds like your having issues with weapons. Are you using two different delayed weapons? If that is the case you need to have the same delay or your going to have some issues.

    What made scouts and warriors fun, was timing your autoattacks between your spells and abilities. A good scout and warrior will parse much higher damage numbers then one who cannot account for the delay in their attacks. I also turned off my bar completely, I listen for the sound of my attacks.

    No matter how many likes you get, I doubt its just a simple fix or turn on or off. I actually think it would be wise for developers to turn off the "DPS" cap and make autoattacks worth something again because honestly it sounds like the game is imbalanced completely if CAs/Spells are doing more for the classes that were designed to BE more damaging towards their attacks. It would naturally make certain classes so much better then others.

    Turning off procs is also a no-no, in fact they should scale procs down a bit and add more interesting procs to the game like TSO and other older expansions. Maybe I would sub up again, but TLE was fun and autoattacking STILL requires skills there.
  12. Veta Well-Known Member

    Didn't know I was Harry Potter, I need to make sure I have my wand on me at all times now.
  13. Jeb! New Member

    I haven't figured out who is more clueless yet, Gixx or this guy.
    Livejazz, Ruckus and -Soteria- like this.
  14. Talathionwins Active Member

    It really sounds like you just guys just don't want to play a scout or warrior. If you don't like playing autoattack classes, why not switch to a mage and use a wand?

    I plan on resubbing for TLE once ROK/TSO comes out and don't want all the skill taken away from the classes please, thank you.

    Timing your Autoattacks is a huge skill component of scout and warrior classes. (even crusaders and monks and bruisers!)
  15. Entropy Well-Known Member

    ITT: we have a guy who "doesn't lag" because he doesn't raid, and also doesn't understand the difference between low FPS and server lag.

    Way to go, Internet, you gave this guy a place to deliver his dumb.
  16. Talathionwins Active Member

    My character was made in 2006. Who are you again? If you can't play scout play something easier.

    Its probably the server if there are issues but I can't imagine such an old game being so overstressed. However there are 'far' less attacks then they're used to be in the game. So I can't imagine it being 'more laggy' then it was a few years ago because they got rid of the SIX EXTRA ATTACKS double attack used to provide and made it ONE BIG HIT instead. If you remember that change, or was that before your time?

    I also imagine, the servers have been upgraded since back then too.. also since there is less people there should be less stress on the servers as well.
  17. Entropy Well-Known Member

    I'm glad you have such a great imagination. Those of us who are living in reality, however, are dealing with varying levels of lag on raids... from "just a bit, but tolerable" to "severe wtf holy %#@$".
    -Soteria- likes this.
  18. Talathionwins Active Member

    Sounds like a zoning server issue, not autoattack. I didn't lag when I raided in the TLE server a bit ago.

    Maybe they should get rid of doublecast instead? Since that contributes just as much lag if not even more.

    Here is a brain fart for you.

    All the 'delay' does, is if your dumb all it does is delay your autoattack. Which makes you miss it, and have less damage due to missing it. That means that its actually making you lag less for being 'bad'.

    So making it 'not' have a delay, would actually cause MORE lag, since that is what you say is the issue. Maybe we need to add a delay to mage autoattacks as well?

    We have even less procs then we did before, and even less attacks. So its not this that is causing this lag, its something new, or a problem with the zoning server.

    What probably needs to happen is server merges and better servers.
  19. Lea Plath Active Member

    This guy was a troll on EQ2flames too soooo...

    Basically for people coming into this thread, the lag is server side and is mostly in higher end content due to the number of procs going on, as well as other things. It isn't skill based. You can't time for it. It isn't based on weapon speed. What is happening is the attack is taking a few extra seconds (I've seen between 2 and 12) to fire, which is cutting down on DPS. The new gear is attempting to cut down on it, but we are still at a state where the server side isn't able to keep up, therefore you have autoattack "lagging" and taking a few seconds to go through, same for combat arts.
    Livejazz and Prissetta like this.
  20. Ragna Well-Known Member

    While lag is indeed a big issue atm, I find funny that your "solutions" are nerf mages/buff me :)

    Because who need to compete against Locks and Necros for a DPS slot ;)
    Btw if DoTs are such a drain on ressources, what about MA/Flurry ?

    First, you (rightfully) identify procs as a cause of lag, then you want scouts, tanks and half the healers to be able to proc more ? /boggle.

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