Chains of Eternity: Avatars

Alright, so we have a hefty serving of avatars on our plates this expansion. 6 total, all on independent spawn.

In addition, the new ones spawn randomly around the zone (Commonlands, Lesser Faydark, Antonica) and teleport to random locations on wipe.

I think the idea is awesome. Maybe not the wipe part, but whatever. People not siting accounts AFK at avatar spawns and alt-tabbing to check them every 10 minutes when due, etc. That's just a totally lame way of doing it.

The opposite, however, would be even better. Let them spawn randomly in those zones, but make everyone aware when they spawn. After all, isn't that the purpose of an avatar? To spread the gods' influence? Not just sit there silently. There really should be a worldwide red text, or event when the avatar spawns (Brell could cause earthquakes when he gets back, Marr could send text to all the good aligned characters (or just paladins!), Growth could make random sparkly flowers appear in certain zones.. disease could apply a contagious detriment randomly worldwide until killed, etc. Subtle indications.)

It would engage the entire game in the Avatar spawns.. not just the high end raiders. Sure, they wouldn't live long.. but everyone (including competitor guilds) would know and make a spectacle of every avatar.

All the mechanics for doing this kind of stuff are already in-game. There's no reason avatars should simply be "Spawn silently and be killed under the radar by one guild, a few times a week".

There is a better way of doing this. Go the extra mile. Please?

I wouldn't even call it the extra mile. More like going the full mile.

Amen.

As cool as this sounds on paper, you'd have everybody show up to the zone and guilds would never kill avatars because SOE's servers/code can't handle 75 people in the same spot in the same zone while a raid mob script is going off without giving everyone 3+ second spell lag.

Plus, for the first few weeks you'd get screwed by part of the script that was overlooked and will cause the mob to completely bug out when anyone not in raid is nearby, most notably Soren's golems.

This is such a sad fact

Sure, implementing anything like this poorly would, indeed, have poor results.

Releasing an expansion under that same pessimism seems like a bad idea. That doesn't mean they should stop releasing expansions. I really doubt a zone would lag out with 70 people, because I've done valor pulls with 70 people standing around firing fireworks, spawning bands, and spamming macros. They weren't that bad. Mostly because the onlookers aren't participating in combat.

Lavastorm was different back then, with Flame. They had just released Najenas or Munzoks or something and everyone extra in the zone was fighting stuff. Even then, we still killed everything.

Server upgrades later, I'm pretty sure it would be fine. And if not, it's still our responsibility to make suggestions, and it's their responsibility to implement them properly.

I agree the avatars fights in EoF and RoK (and I think my guild pulled hate once in TSO..) were great, and it would be amazing to get to experience that again, I would certainly get back into raiding for it, but Buffrats probably right, in SF 90% of the challenge in killing the otherwise easy contested was 3+ second spell lag. Doubt the servers would do much better today. :\

Well I imagine the idea of the randomized spawning and resetting is so that it isn't just a basic "Avatar spawns. Guilds sitting on it find out. One of them kills it. Wait for next spawn" kind of thing. While I sympathize with them on that being a boring system, the solution isn't randomized spawn points within a zone, with a huge window of when it even happens.

You literally have to fly around the zones for hours hoping to find one. If the intent is to increase the chance of those one or two guilds missing the spawn, why? Why does it matter?

If the answer is: So others can go there and either have a shot at pulling it, or show up to watch it get killed then why not just announce it to everyone? I don't think there is another answer to that question.

So maybe coincidence, but Valor spawned at his normal spot for both servers that have seen him. Why he teleports around the zone on wipe, I have no idea.

Still, the suggestion stands. If the servers can handle the stress, serverwide subtle hints at their spawning would still be a positive contribution to the avatar experience.

Well, a different server claims they did indeed have an avatar spawn in a random location, not just on a wipe. OP still stands.

The irony is that in reality different spawns help the guilds that generally kill Avatars more then the guild that would like to try at some point. That guild is neither likely to know all the spawns or be able to easily catch it at that spawn. When it is one spawn point it is really easy for them to camp even if they don't know when it was last killed.

It should either always spawn in the same spot and move on a wipe, or spawn in a random spot and not move on a wipe. The whole moving on a wipe thing doesn't really help another guild trying to kill it either. Because when the first guild dies and you would get a good opportunity to pull you are instead trying to find the mob while they get a chance to rez and find it as well.

I guess I just don't understand the reasoning behind doing this. There are so many better ways to accomplish what I THINK they're trying to do that doesn't involve pouring pure grain frustration on our chafed flying-mount-saddled thighs.

How do you kill an Avatar, if most of your Raidforce players have a Job ?

Our force was Server nr 3 in Killing mobs an had almost everything down (Valor) But we only had one Avatar.

Our Server nr. 1 Raidforce is alway online an consists of people who seem to be "financially independent", as they are online all the time.

So they get all the Avarats, before we do. And as they farm Avatars, their gear gets better all the time. So even if we get a lucky Pull, because the Avatar spawns in the evening, we only have one try, that ist their turn, and the now only need one pull having all the equipment and all the scripts.

We can easily lay those Mobs, if we would get a chance. But I guess Sony only wants unemployed and millionärs to lay Avatars.

I am really pissed off. It would be an easy thing to give a raid a Buff, after having killed an Avatar which lasts 4-5 days. Than others would have a chance as well.

By the way, what happend in the new expansion? the Nr. 1 force laid ALL avatars in 3 days. And raidforce who used to be place nr.12 on the server are almost true the Raidcontent. My Wife is main Healer and used to having 15-30.000 HPS, now she only need 3.000 or so on the zones.

They have always ran it this way.

Our guild consists of 29, soon to be 30, people. We've killed avatars with 16-17 people + 3-4 alts just sitting there doing nothing. You don't need to be always online, jobless, and/or a millionaire to kill avatars. You just need to want to do it. During the day we always get people who can't make it because of work, classes, etc. Some people log in from their jobs on their laptops. During the night it's easy to get a full raid, because everyone wants to kill the avatars bad enough that we'll get up at 3 in the morning to collect our pixel loot. Even if your entire raid force has a job, you still have at least 12 hours you can camp avatars/call list for...you just have to care enough.

Also, a 4-5 day buff on a character wouldn't stop the people who truly care from keeping the avatars on lockdown. Everyone has at least 1 geared alt by now, and if it's an account lock, I know of at least 3 guilds that can field entire raids that are geared enough to kill avatars from secondary accounts.



In other news, lag is coming back. Health today with 34 people in zone (27 at the pull spot) and I was getting 2-3 second+ spell lag. Weeee.

The people who don't have families and jobs are always the best geared. Always will be.

Those that can play the most get out the most.

Lol? That's an outrageously bold blanket statement, my friend.

I work full time, I have classes twice a week, and I still manage to find time to hang out with friends, family, and be better than everyone else. We basically raid twice a week, plus avatars. That's less than 12 hours a week.

I've been in more serious bowling leagues than that.

As for lag, you're completely overstating the issue Buffrat. Mine didn't exceed a half a second, maybe a full second when adds spawned. No big deal.

Wow, that's quite impressive. So you work at least 37 hrs a week, have two classes at what? 2 hrs each, plus traveling to and from work and class, plus eq2 time of 12 hrs, plus meal times, catch up with friends, etc, then a wife or girlfriend nagging you to grow up and act your age because computer games are for kids!

I'm sure some people can do it. It's all about being the most efficient with your time. I don't have classes, but commuting to work adds 2 hrs a day. Tbh the main difference between you and me seems to be that you are flexible at when you can play eq2 (ie when raids needs you), while I am the opposite and very random in my playtimes

Double post

I have to admit that when I first read this post, all that came to mind was whining about having to actually put more work into camping Avatars. Now after seeing this system in place for a week and a half, I'm tending to agree with the OP.

I have to believe that the change to the Avatars spawning in random locations is meant to help casual guilds have an actual chance at killing these mobs and obtaining their OP loot. This theory sounds great on paper, but in application it fails. I don't believe for even one moment that any casual guild is going to run around 3 zones looking for an Avatar, as they have limited playtime usually nor do they actually care to give these mobs a go as they are "contested" which means lag, and other players there watching and at times griefing them. So basically what this new system has done is the opposite of the intention in opening them up for more players.

What was even the reason for bringing contested back to the game anyway if we want everything to be "fair" and "equal" amongst all guilds? You could simply have placed these inside of the instances but made them a rare spawn, so it's hit or miss if you even have an opportunity to pull them. Personally, I'd much rather these Avatars either go into instances or leave the game for good, and devote more time and resources into making instanced content for all levels of play to enjoy. This game went away from contested content a few expansions ago when all of the TSO Avatar loot was nerfed into oblivion, which literally caused a LOT of end game raiders to leave this game for good due to the lack of respect to the players who were actively killing them.

Back to the OP, I don't think giving a server or zonewide message if the Avatar spawns would help anything. It will simply create more lag from everyone wanting to come and watch the fight, although if multiple capable guilds are camping these at the time of the message it would in theory create a competition head to head which is what these mobs are all about. There really is no good solution for these if you, SOE, are really intent on letting everyone have a fair shot at these mobs. The one way that would be fair I guess would be to put them as rare spawns inside of the instanced content, but then RNG could be super kind to one guild and super stingy to another, so even that wouldn't be perfect. The Avatars simply should never have come back, they are not difficult nor entertaining, and this new system where they can spawn all over the place is only going to make a lot of guilds angry, not only the HC guilds tracking these.