I've always had trouble fine-tuning my cast order without some assistance. One of my guildmates (thanks, Pelee!) helped me set up a worksheet in Excel to do this: The DPS field is calculated, using data from the others you must fill in using your Knowledge Book and Examine windows for each spell. The formula for DPS here is as follows. Once you have it in the first row, you can grab the cell handle and drag it down the column to populate the remaining rows, or copy the cell and paste it into the other rows. =((D2+((IF(G2>C2,C2,G2))/IF(ISNUMBER(F2),F2,1))*E2)/C2)*IF(ISNUMBER(H2),H2,1) How this works: If the Recast Time is shorter than any DOT component Duration, the duration is being treated here as equal to the recast time, i.e., you cast it as soon as its up. Divide the Recast Time by Every X Secs. If there isn't a number in that cell, it's treated as 1 for the purposes of the calculation. This is the number of times that DOT is going to tick. Multiply the result by Max DOT Damage. Adding that to Max Initial Damage gets us to the basic damage value. Divide that result by Re-Cast Time. This results in your basic DPS. But we are not done. To weight AOEs better, in AOE Multiplier enter a 4 for every blue AOE, and a 3 for every green AOE. If there's a number in that field, the DPS value is multiplied by AOE Multiplier. If there isn't a number in that cell, it's treated as 1 for the purposes of the calculation. Once you have all your spells in the table, sort by DPS in descending order. This is the basis for your cast order. Some spells, however, have special conditions and you will need to rearrange a bit based on your experience and playstyle. My cast order is based on being a raider and usually having Time Warp available. The "best" cast order will vary based on YOUR spell numbers: all of mine are mastered or grandmastered, and I took the values fully dressed in my raid gear and self-buffed, with my mage pet up. NOTE: You don't cast the whole list in order then start back at the top. You cast until the stuff higher in the list refreshes, then go back and hit the higher priority spells again. SOE Community Council Member
Can you please specify content of each column C, D, E, F, G & H? I cannot see an image of excel if you provided it. Thank you!
My goodness that expression is frightening. Back in my day we just took the total possible damage and divided that by (cast time + recovery time), then ranked them from highest to lowest, factoring in enemy count for green/blue spells. That became your general cast order. Recast time mostly has no bearing on anything, and you use ACT to see which spells should be upgraded first (the ones that do the most damage when you follow your general cast order).
Exactly this. Any ranking of cast order based in any part on recast time is 100% fail. If you are concerned that the recast is shorter than the duration, (in most cases) don't cast that spell again until it expires; it's not rocket science. It also has absolutely nothing to do with DPS efficiency, which is the sole arbiter of a theoretical, non-real world cast order. Theoretical DPS efficiency = (total damage) / (cast time + recovery time). "Total damage" and thus real world DPS efficiency unfortunately is determined (or guesstimated) during combat in real time, on the fly. The faster and more consistently you can do that, the better player you are. For every AOE spell there is a "worth it" number of targets to favor it over a given available ST spell. For every DOT there is a "worth it" duration to favor it over an available single-hitter spell. You start getting a feel for what's "worth it" to cast the more you play. You can calculate all the theoretical DPS efficiencies you want, but TBH this is only the beginning of maximizing your DPS against a given encounter. This is not quite true. The spells that do the most damage (tend to) depend on which zone you are in and do not necessarily have a direct bearing on DPS efficiency, which is a better determinant of which spells to upgrade first. OTOH, when talking about which spells to upgrade, DPS efficiency no longer becomes the only factor to consider. Here recast time becomes useful as a consideration. If you have a spell that you tend to cast often but does not necessarily have the highest DPS efficiency, it may be worth more bang for the buck if you upgrade that spell over another that has higher DPS efficiency but can only be cast every few minutes, for example. It all depends.
so apparently we should' When I get to computer tonight I will get an example for you set up and will try to post an image here.
I will try with arrows and headers if in excel. Will do my best. Otherwise I agree especially for newbies it's hard to grasp a formula right away. Not much sense
No offense to the OP, but the basis of the formula is just plain wrong (see my post above). If you still want to use this formula, then you deserve to.
No need to be offensive. We can modify it to look correct. I will take in consideration what you posted as well. I know my biggest dps spells and they are pretty much on top in every fight. So I will test the formula to see if it's true or not. Btw if you trully look at it duration is pretty much used in calculation not recast time. Anyway I will see tonight what i get from it.
Still, it can give newer players a starting point. They can then adjust from there. Of course, if you have a better base formula, you are more than welcome to post it. Edit: What I mean by that is the formula in your above post (the first abrasive one, not the followup) doesn't take into account whether a spell is a good candidate for being in the cast order more than once. For example, as a Necro, the recast on my soulrot is so short that I can literally cast it every other spell and do some significant dps (granted, there may be other options at endgame - I haven't raided since early DoV).
I have adjusted my worksheet based on feedback here and from Flames. I have updated all my values based on what the spell examine windows say after the last GU, self-buffed only. I also set up an epic training dummy, and launched ten attacks of each of my swarm pets, then took the average values to get an idea of their DPS. The formula I am using for DPS is: =((D2+((IF(G2>C2,C2,G2))/IF(ISNUMBER(F2),F2,1))*E2)/C2)*IF(ISNUMBER(H2),H2,1) Where: Col A = Spell Name Col B = Casting Time (from the spell's Examine window). Only used as a guide for what to cast when Time Warp is up, not involved in the calculation for DPS. Col C = Re-Cast_Time (from the spell's Examine window). And yes, recast time has to be in there, that's how we get damage PER SECOND rather than just total damage. Col D = Max_Initial_Damage (from the spell's Examine window) Col E = Max_DOT_Damage (from the spell's Examine window). For calculating DOT damage. Col F = Every_X_Secs (from the spell's Examine window). This is the number of times the DOT will tick. For calculating DOT damage. Col G = Duration (from the spell's Examine window). If the duration is longer than the re-cast time, I use the re-cast time in calculating DOT damage instead because I'm not going to wait for the remaining ticks before re-casting. Col H = AOE_Multiplier (I used 3 for green AOEs, and 4 for blue ones) Col I = DPS (calculated value) How it's calculated: Number_of_DOT_Ticks = Duration ÷ Every_X_Secs Total_DOT_Damage = Number_of_DOT_Ticks * Max_DOT_Damage Combined_Damage = (Max_Initial_Damage + Total_DOT_Damage) ÷ Re-Cast_Time DPS = Combined_Damage * AOE_Multiplier
Hmm, there is polite constructive criticism and then there is this type. As a long time training officer constructive criticism goes a lot further then pure criticism with no offer of reasons. although I have found a Gibbs every once in awhile gets a recent graduate from the academy a push in the right direction - used sparingly
Oh, brother. One more time, you get DPS, aka damage per second, from the following basic formula: (Total damage) / (casting time + recovery time). Note that the numerator is given in units of "damage" and the denominator is given in units of "seconds". Thus DPS is already properly denominated in units of damage/second, without having to reference recast time in any way, shape, or form. Even intuitively this makes sense. What you are figuring out is how much bang (damage) do you get from your buck (time spent casting the spell). When you can ever cast the spell again has ZERO relevance to that spell's DPS. Let me give you two extreme examples to make this even more obvious. Say you have two spells. One is called Megaboomboom. It does 1 billion damage, has a casting time of 1.5sec but a recast time of 1 month. With maxed spell stats that's 0.75sec cast time, 0.25sec recovery time, and 15 day recast time. The theoretical DPS for this spell is exactly 1 billion. Assume this spell cannot be included in spells like FB and it cannot be modified in any way or be used to modify or enhance any other spell. Now put yourself in the middle of a fight. It's been about 15 days since you last used this spell and all of a sudden it lights up on your hot bar. Assuming you're not in the middle of an FB rotation or something like that and your current target is a mob of consequence, what other possible spell in your armament would you choose to next cast over this one??? The correct answer is NONE. This will be the highest DPS spell in your spell book and whenever it comes up you will be choosing it over any other spell. It's recast time does not figure into its DPS at all. Now let's do the low damage - fast recast example. You also have another spell called Tickbyte. It does 10 thousand damage with maxed times of 0.75sec cast time, 0.25sec recovery time, and 1 second recast time. DPS for this spell is exactly 10 thousand. As far as I know, 1 second is the fastest recast time of any spell. Assuming you are a T1 DPS Mage, would you EVER choose to cast this spell if any other damage spell were up??? The correct answer is Hells to the no. But but but, it has such a fast recast time, you say! It matters not. Recast time matters not. What matters is how damage is outputted per time spent casting it. Barring special situations, Megaboomboom should get prioritized over Tickbyte every day of the week and twice on Sunday, and so should every other spell.
Mystere, you're just not doing it right. Crystal Blast can be cast a lot of times in one minute. Other spells can only be cast once in that interval. What this means is that you get more damage from Crystal Blast over the duration of the fight. Remember, you don't go down this list one by one and fire everything before starting over: every time a spell higher in the list refreshes you go back to it.
this would be right if I wanted to maximize the dps of this one spell, but I thought we are talking about overall dps? for example looking at Crystal Blast and Theugist's Detonation... the 2nd has a cast time of only 0,25 sec and hits for 27,301 dmg, Blast is at 1 sec and does 16,405 Elementalist A: casts Detonation for 27k dmg, and then casts Arcane Bewilderment for 22k dmg ( cast time 0,25sec), each of them doing more damage than Crystal Blast and are cast in about the same time ( recovery and stuff) Elementalist B: still casting Crystal Blast cos it takes 1 sec for 16k dmg who has done more dps? And don't forget if the fight takes longer Detonation and Bewilderment are up faster for Elementalist A Why is it that both of this spells are so low on your list? They would be top priority on my casting order Edit: spelling
I have such a spreadsheet for Warlocks , but it is probably very outdated. Could you make one generic for classes. I would welcome though if it had 1 side for single targets, where you can see how the warlock encounter spells rank with the Myth button switched on (+30% something damage). and another for linked mobs 3+. easy file hoster: http://www.2shared.com/
