So we have it happen repeatedly where I can verify via logs bulwark was on the group but we get smacked with the barrage damage. (Note this is not the tank casting it earlier, but it just not working). Seems to happen more often on challenge mobs, but that may just be because I care more since it only really matters on challenge mobs. Will be logging occurrences here moving forward to maybe help with finding solutions.
I've spent some time trying to reproduce this in Vex Thal: Edge of Oscuris, against Atramonox, but haven't been able to. If steps can be provided to help identify the cause, that'd be fantastic. Also, did this just start happening after the recent cast time reduction on Bulwark of Order?
I have noticed several times throughout this expansion that I would hit Bulwark of Order, but the group-wide damage/stun combo would hit us, despite Bulwark's hotkey showing that it is on cooldown. This has happened more frequently since the cast time reduction. I notice it most often in normal heroic zones, though I occasionally see similar results in raid zones. I suppose it's possible that I'm simply hitting Bulwark too early. If that's the case, it is unfair to punish tanks who have very quick reaction times. Most of us use ACT to call out incoming barrages. This is especially important in raids (where the chat->barrage time is so low) and multi-mob fights (where the tank is juggling aggro and not looking at the boss). Can the duration of Bulwark be extended so it fully covers the enemy's casting time and the actual barrage hit?
I know we occasionally got hit the bulwark fail prior to the change, but not nearly so often, and I can not verify if those were the same thing or not cause I didn't look at logs to verify the timing to be certain bulwark was still on people when the fail effect hit. But even if it was the same thing going on, it wasn't nearly so often-not often enough for me to even care lol. We had a fail maybe once every few weeks, if that, so it wasn't a big deal, and I just assumed it was something weird with bulwark getting cast late due to power/recovery things. I will say I've notice it comes in chunks, we'll be fine for a while and then have to happen a lot really close together. My last run through brawl(8/31) it didn't happen once which was pleasantly surprising. I haven't been able to find a pattern to when it happens versus when it doesn't yet. So I can't provide steps beyond tank hits bulwark, mob casts barrage and boom we get hit with barrage failure damage/stun even though its been less than 8 seconds since bulwark was cast/landed on the group. Group make up is typically: Monk, Troub, Temp, Mystic, Conj and then either another Conj or a Swash in case there could be something weird going on with that.
This is why I've been looking at logs to verify timing when it happens, because right after the change there were issues with that. But we adjusted for it and then were getting fails when bulwark was definitely still on the group. The timing being off now is a separate issue(though I do agree that it is annoying to have to wait to cast bulwark to make sure it doesn't go off early, especially in raids where there's not a cast bar to use for timing) because its not technically a bug if bulwark was no longer on the group and you get hit with the fail effect.
Have to filter out the possibility that the tank hit bulwark prior to the cast time of the barrage ended. With the cast time change to bulwark it is not possible to cast it and have it expire prior to the full barrage ends. I know that was an issue when it first changed. Off and on we've had problems with tank hits button, ability goes on cooldown, fail still smacks group.
Fight: The Abandoned Labomination Group make up: Monk, Temp, Mystic, Troub, Conj, Conj Mob was less than 15% health. (1630629552)[Thu Sep 2 20:39:12 2021] \aNPC 203217 The Abandoned Labomination:The Abandoned Labomination\/a readies a barrage! (1630629552)[Thu Sep 2 20:39:12 2021] \#FF00FFThe Abandoned Labomination prepares to unleash a barrage of attacks! (1630629554)[Thu Sep 2 20:39:14 2021] \aPC 58827 Jhin:Jhin\/a says to the group, "~~~~Trust Me , I Hit It~~~~" (1630629554)[Thu Sep 2 20:39:14 2021] Jhin applies a bulwark to the group. (1630629557)[Thu Sep 2 20:39:17 2021] \aNPC 203217 The Abandoned Labomination:The Abandoned Labomination\/a releases a barrage of attacks! (1630629561)[Thu Sep 2 20:39:21 2021] The Abandoned Labomination's Barrage: Beaker Breaker II hits Jhin for 716776842 piercing damage. (1630629563)[Thu Sep 2 20:39:23 2021] Thandco's bulwark fades. We got both the stun and the damage. So barrage hit us 7 seconds after bulwark was cast and landed. The tank has his bulwark at expert so the duration is 9.2 seconds. I didn't notice anything else interesting.
Hey look it happened again, same mob seperate zone same group make up mob was somewhere between 40 and 60 percent health (1630632918)[Thu Sep 2 21:35:18 2021] \aNPC 738363 The Abandoned Labomination:The Abandoned Labomination\/a readies a barrage! (1630632918)[Thu Sep 2 21:35:18 2021] \#FF00FFThe Abandoned Labomination prepares to unleash a barrage of attacks! (1630632920)[Thu Sep 2 21:35:20 2021] \aPC 750573 Jhin:Jhin\/a says to the group, "~~~~Trust Me , I Hit It~~~~" (1630632920)[Thu Sep 2 21:35:20 2021] Jhin applies a bulwark to the group. (1630632923)[Thu Sep 2 21:35:23 2021] \aNPC 738363 The Abandoned Labomination:The Abandoned Labomination\/a releases a barrage of attacks! (1630632927)[Thu Sep 2 21:35:27 2021] The Abandoned Labomination's Barrage: Beaker Breaker II hits Jhin for 720988169 piercing damage. (1630632929)[Thu Sep 2 21:35:29 2021] Jhin's bulwark fades. Once again both the stun and the damage, and also 7 seconds after bulwark was cast.
In brawl on the kestrel mob Group make up: Monk, Temp, Mystic, Troub, Conj, Conj mob health was somewhere between 15 and 30 percent (1630637706)[Thu Sep 2 22:55:06 2021] \aNPC 630725 Fazplaka Akka:Fazplaka Akka\/a readies a barrage! (1630637706)[Thu Sep 2 22:55:06 2021] \#FF00FFFazplaka Akka prepares to unleash a barrage of attacks! (1630637708)[Thu Sep 2 22:55:08 2021] \aPC 85773 Jhin:Jhin\/a says to the group, "~~~~Trust Me , I Hit It~~~~"(1630637708)[Thu Sep 2 22:55:08 2021] Jhin applies a bulwark to the group. (1630637711)[Thu Sep 2 22:55:11 2021] \aNPC 630725 Fazplaka Akka:Fazplaka Akka\/a releases a barrage of attacks! (1630637715)[Thu Sep 2 22:55:15 2021] Fazplaka Akka's Barrage: Shadowspikes II hits Jhin for 703556767 piercing damage. (1630637717)[Thu Sep 2 22:55:17 2021] Jhin's bulwark fades. We got both the stun and the damage. Once again 7 seconds. I will note with them all being 7 seconds, our tank typically times bulwark off the mobs cast bar and so is hitting it at roughly the same point every time.
I know one encounter where this happens often, probably more than 50% of all times: The first named encounter in Grim Fortress Expert.
remember, the siblings in fort grim reflect so that may be what hits you try implosion when they reflect, its fun!
Do your logs show it hitting anyone other than Jhin? I believe you, but the damage hitting the tank is intended, unless they changed it. (Which I'm pretty sure they have not.) Bulwark protects the entire group from everything else, but the tank still takes the damage.
The problem isn't even really the damage, like you can get the damage and not the stun. But the whole group is getting stunned and getting smacked - the same way they do if the tank just doesn't hit bulwark. So something is happening where it's treating the entire group like bulwark is not up.
I understand - But if the damage isn't hitting any of the rest of the group, then it makes a difference in finding the culprit.
Yes, I know that it makes a difference. My initial post mentioned the group got hit so I didn't explicitly spell it out that it was the whole group every post. I figured saying "we got" instead of "the tank got" made it clear it was not just the tank getting smacked. I just didn't feel the need to pull more lines of logs that are all the same just a different name so I just pulled the first one from each group. I'm just over having to remember to react to every bulwark as if we don't have a tank, when there's a tank in the group, because the tank hitting bulwark at the right time is not guaranteed to protect us If there's anymore information that would be useful please let me know and I can add it.
Where does the line similar to this show up in that log? (1630704200)[Fri Sep 3 14:23:20 2021] \aNPC 62470 The Abandoned Labomination:The Abandoned Labomination\/a releases a barrage of attacks!
I edited all 3 messages to add that and the pre-messages. The tank is using the colon in the mob's cast bar on barrage as his marker to hit bulwark, if that is at all helps(meaning we get the same timing on all the messages in comparison to when tank hits bulwark/it lands on us and it works most of the time). If it would be helpful I can pull the same logs from a different bulwark on one of those fights where it worked right?
While the changes to Bulwark have helped - Bulwark will still fail at times to "exactly land". Happened on one pull of the first name in Vex 1 Challenge Raid yesterday. My bulwark sends a tell to the group that it was cast. We all see the tell, but I can tell Bulwark didn't land. The icon lit came pretty fast and I recast it and it failed to land a second time. Of course, a miss bulwark on that fight (and most raid fights) is a real problem. In groups - Bulwark used to fail a lot more often before the changes. After the changes, I maybe getting it not landing once in VD2 each time I run it, no rhyme or reason as to when it happens that I can see yet.
One thing I have noticed is that a lot of tanks wait a sec or two before casting Bulwark because of how long it is before the barrage lands, vs. how long Bulwark is active once cast.
