[Brawler] Stone Cold change

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by Sylvi, Jun 4, 2014.

  1. Sylvi Member

    Here is an idea for "Stone Cold" from the brawler heroic tree.

    [IMG]
    Stone Cold Stance
    The brawler covers himself in protective Chi, reducing the damage he takes from attacks he can't avoid however lowering the damage of his weapons or fists.
    Casting: 0.5 seconds
    Recast: 2 minutes
    Duration: 1 minute
    1. Reduces the damage taken from attacks that strike-through avoidance by 33%.
      Applies "Balance of Life" if struck through additionally healing the brawler for 5.0% of his max health.
    2. Increases Mitigation of caster vs physical damage by 10*Level. (950 if L95)
    3. Reduces base auto-attack modifier of caster by 0.15.
  2. Malleria Well-Known Member

    It's an interesting idea, but few problems with it.
    a) SOE would probably want to lower the duration
    b) 950 mitigation isn't enough to make a difference, should be more akin to rock skin's mit boost
    c) The damage reduction only triggering on strike-through isn't reliable enough to be used in content where you'd actually need the damage reduction to survive :(

    I'd prefer to keep the 15% group reduction as is. It has a great duration/recast, and is useful in a variety of situations.
  3. Sylvi Member

    950 Mitigation is actually significant because that is mitigation before increases, it may only seem under-powered on paper however it can add up. Most spikes and one shots happen on brawler's because they are struck-through, since it ignores most things, a straight reduction to damage would be quite powerful because its a reduction to damage first, then it goes through your higher mitigation.

    Strikethrough Immunity was extremely overpowered. However this is pretty much 1/3 Immunity, 1.5/3 if you consider your own mitigation, because the damage of strikethrough attacks are reduced by 33%, then go through your mitigation.

    15% Group Damage reduction is not that good, it may look good on paper however in a situation where you ever needed it you or your group would be already dead. It also doesn't really work well with healers because when that happens they usually have something up that will either heal, or prevent that damage from happening anyways. 15% damage reduction will not save them in a serious fight. I wore the ring myself that does the same effect, it seemed to not make any sort of difference because if I died the group died anyways, even with it on. Or If I put it on and it triggered and my group received the damage reduction, they died anyways because of mechanics. It didn't really matter.

    I thought it to be "Until Canceled" myself, however I figured it would be much better as a triggered ability through the fight instead of a passive buff because it has a downside to it.

    As you can see, I have put a fair amount of thought into the ability. However I would like to hear a couple situations, at least 5 where 15% group damage reduction would be a significant help in current content. My idea is to help brawlers become better tanks without a significant revamp to the class. When I play my healer I notice what kills brawlers the most, is them being struck through and not able to soak up all the damage that is received, which is why I prefer using any other tank class over them.
  4. Corydonn Well-Known Member

    Stone Cold was enough to prevent Death Touches from killing in Plane of War back in DoV (It's also 15% for ourselves too) . It's a little extra padding to aid in a burst situation like a hard hitting AE or add spawns that I think is pretty good.

    I'd like to see Stone Cold kept where it is since it's our ONLY defensive group protection ability as a bruiser and I'm pretty sure the same for monks.

    Bruisers do have soak hit while monks get the pull player to them thing, If anything needs revamped it is the bruiser left prestige tree to not include an STR buff as one of the benefits, Something better than a ward on rock skin I guess and a complete ditching of the teleport to ally crap that replaced the tsunami. I am going to have to look if any bruisers even have that ability specced because of how horrible it is and Mantis Leap is already a way to teleport to allies.

    The Eagle's Shriek line is also pretty worthless and supposed to be a huge factor in brawler tanking but it's nearly impossible to get the stoneskins to work right because as soon as you are healed back up past the casting requirement the stoneskins won't trigger unless you hit back down in the low%s and only really trigger if you are alive and under 10%. I'd really have to test it more in depth to see what does and doesn't work with it, But I do know it isn't effective enough to warrant most brawlers to use.
  5. Malleria Well-Known Member

    Rock Skin ward should be replaced with a flat 30% damage reduction. It's not gonna stop modern fail conditions that pound you repeatedly, and at least two other tank classes get the same thing in the same section of their left side prestige. Eagle Shriek should be changed to apply a buff of X duration (45sec? 20sec? I dunno) if you drop below 50. Only giving you the benefit while you stay under 50% is silly. Eagle's Patience should also be changed to an automatic trigger, not something you have to cast yourself.

    Left side prestige: scrap martial leap and put impenetrable back in the shadow tree so we have a realistic option of taking combination again. I kinda like the idea the OP has about a strike-through trigger (just not at the expense of stone cold). Maybe the new left side endline could be a % chance to proc a stoneskin or reduced damage from the next attack when a mob scores a strike through. 33% chance to reduce the damage of the next hit by 50% or something.

    Or just make the end ability on the left side prestige return our passive stoneskin triggering abilities to their pre-nerf status. Instant boost in survivability there :D
  6. Errrorr An Actual EQ2 Player

    Stone Cold is pretty awesome as it is already. Up 1/3 of the time, 15% Damage Reduction, not just to yourself, but to the whole group.

    If anything should be changed, Tag Team should be visible in the maintained window.
  7. Koko Well-Known Member

    I'll concur that stone cold is already a solid ability (and the proposed change is likely a nerf). :x
  8. Sylvi Member

    Alright, I will stop making suggestions for brawler since your classes are fine. My mistake.
  9. Corydonn Well-Known Member

    This is very much needed.
  10. Malleria Well-Known Member

    There's no harm in making suggestions :) Just not everyone is always gonna agree. Brawlers (especially Bruisers) do need something, but replacing one of their solid abilities isn't the way to go.
  11. Silzin Active Member


    I have also tried to make suggestions over time in the "Monk Changes Revisited 2014".

    I think that Stone Cold is a decent ability that a lot of people do not Spec since they do not see its benefit, nor do they need it in most fights. But Stone Cold has its place.

    I do think Tag Team needs to Display in some way, Letting it show the duration left on the Target for the Caster to see would be Very nice.

    the Eagle Shriek Line is the largest offender of Monk and Bruiser usable AA. Monks have a few other AA that i would like to be made useful... but i digress.

    Also make Altruism trigger conditions like Blood Letter does... so it will be the very last Death Save to trigger. this way it is useful to place on other tanks or healers.
  12. Sylvi Member

    I play mostly as a healer, and I see the ability as a crutch to a bad healer. Honestly I would rather take a real tank and a dirge or troub or use Tortoise Shell for AE Immunity. Much better then a short damage reduction buff that probably won't matter because mechanics that do hit the group more or less usually one shot us or is a failure mechanic.

    I suppose that is my mistake as trying to make an ability based off my skills instead of the tanks. However for most zones I out-right refuse most brawler tanks because a swift breeze kills them. Mostly because of strike-throughs and burst damage.

    SOE does not have the resources to revamp the entire class. However what they can do is change an ability to make the classes much better at their designed roles: Tanking.

    Eagle Shreak and Executioner's Fury both need a slight revamp.
  13. Buffrat Well-Known Member

    I mean. Brawlers are immune to strikethrough. And we have equal mitigation as plate tanks basically. Stone Cold is fine as is, it's a great "Tanking" ability. I honestly don't think Monks are in a bad spot. Bruisers probably are but I'm not touching that class, so.

    If I could have any 3 changes

    Tag Team visible in maintained window (and affected by timer mods).
    Mantis Leap visible (and cancellable!) in maintained window.
    Mantis Star minimum range removed.
  14. Silzin Active Member


    Good ideas... But since... CoE? Brawlers no longer have Strikethrow Immunity on our Defensive Stance. they moved the Immunity to all Avoid Abilities.

    this was the same time that they Removed the largest Defensive ability on the Brawler Defensive Stance (ST Immunity) and Removed the Mid-Stance in exchange for the Old Reckless Stance...
  15. Hammdaddy Active Member

    The initial nerf was the deathsaves then the strikethrough was CoE, the midstance was worthless.
  16. Buffrat Well-Known Member

    The avoidance temps give you strikethrough immunity. So yeah, you're strikethrough immune.

    Base avoidance doesn't particularly matter, guardians avoid more than brawlers.
  17. Strac Active Member

    And Close mind gives me immunity to CC effects. Doesn't make me CC-immune.

    Wouldn't it be funny if the statement about guardians avoiding more then brawlers were true the other way around too ? imagine that, brawlers mitigation more then guardian. Ohh the complaints you'd hear. But it's fine of course to do it against brawlers.