Bleedthrough..

Discussion in 'Priests' started by kronich, Mar 14, 2017.

  1. Melt Actually plays the game

    Oh god, Meneltel will be here in minutes...
  2. Revanu Well-Known Member


    Prior in ToT, you could be an atrocious healer, as long as you had that cloak than you would succeed in heroic content as well as raid content.

    That's not the case anymore. I'm not disputing that it isn't a great cloak. The cloak created an identity among the defiler community making them believe they are solid healers, when in fact it was masked by an overpowered ability. Now even with the cloak the subpar have been siphoned out extremely!

    The problem isn't bleed thru. It has been proven countless times that both shaman suffer the same % of bleed thru. Its not arguable. What the topic of debate is, is are why defilers are having certain heals inflict wounds upon their group? Something in the coding mechanics has nightmares being retroactive damage, NOTHING TO DO WITH BLEEDTHRU....
    DoomDrake and Daalilama like this.
  3. Kari Well-Known Member

    The defiler cloak was never an important factor in group healing, it was always a minor supplement to our group wards and hots. It really shines in raids where it gives us a tool to provide support to the other groups in the form of a ward proc that assists the healers for the other groups.

    Before the bleedthru issues I used to swap mine in and out with the tradeskill one depending on how much damage the other groups were taking. At this point with the bleedthru I am leaving it on most of the time, since it is one more ward to blunt some of the bleedthru.

    The majority of defilers never got the cloak in the first place, as it required either a lot of luck or sufficient resources to obtain.
  4. Revanu Well-Known Member


    You were able to force it to drop in ToT based on those in raid who had it in bags during fights against mushroom, kraletus, and guy before kraletus. Even to this day you can go back and 1 group all toT content and force it top drop on those 3 named fights 100%.
  5. Kari Well-Known Member

    And the majority of defilers have never done any of those encounters. Kraletus was never even killed on my server until we went back and one grouped him in this current expac to finish our hats.

    I wasn't aware of a way to influence which cloak drops. Would you mind explaining for future reference?
  6. Revanu Well-Known Member

    If people have their cloaks, bring them with and have in bags so smart loot removes them from drop table. Thus forcing the cloaks you want. same concept applied years ago with the avatars and force spawning them based off how much faction yo sac'd to them.

    Say all people have cloaks, so then the classes you want to drop, have those respective people put their class cloak in bank so it wont render as having in current zone and it will add itself to loot table.
    DoomDrake likes this.
  7. Kari Well-Known Member

    Interesting. Thanks for info.
  8. duckster Active Member

    Kander mentioned on discord yesterday that class abilities would be getting reviewed. Those deemed drastic enough would be adjusted and no major revamp per se. Lets hope this is the case on defiler(for the better, not nerfing mystics).

    Countdown begins...
  9. Errrorr An Actual EQ2 Player


    Having the cloaks on them makes 0 difference. The key thing is classes in raid. This also only applied to the 2nd to last named. Kraletus cloaks were 100% random.
  10. Errrorr An Actual EQ2 Player

  11. Revanu Well-Known Member

    you could force drops the cloaks based off what classes in raid had them. All our testings of this theory were confirmed because we all had the cloaks so we would force illy/fury/defiler cloaks to drop like wildfire. Mushroom/2nd last in kraletus as well as kraletus always dropped the cloaks we left out of raid. Maybe it was luck with RNG on kraletus, but it was 100% everytime on what we wanted in the box...
  12. Fleurs Active Member

    Mind if i paste part of our discussion on discord so that issue is being seen by more people?

    (...)
    at the end of shroud of armor, you got 5 515 644 remaining damage right?
    How soul shackled absorbing an additional 3 626 778 damage left us with 5 440 167 left?
    (Btw no, bleed is more like bleed amount * 100 / (Warded amount + bleed amount) = bleed amount percentage)
    (But since ward that break show "overpowering amount" as bleed instead of "overpowering amount", it cannot be calculated unless you have a case where the ward did not break)
    (but it does not change what i said about soul shackles thingy)
    (...)

    (...)
    On the second hit calculation, after scaled protection let 11.044.530 damage goes through, how can ward of the untamed blocking 6.5m leave us with 9.895.738 damage left?!
    (...)

    (...)
    @Errrorr Something funny on the second set of wards: Notice how the initial hit was supposed to be 11.044.530 + 1.914.654
    With ward of the untamed, the bleed + warded show a grand total of 9.895.738 bleed + 6.597.158 = 16.492.896
    the initial hit was 12.959.184 !!
    Some ward are amplifying the damage we receive, that crazy!
    (...)
  13. Carthago Member

    @ Fleurs "Some ward are amplifying the damage we receive, that crazy!"

    yes but it is true! We laid the last T4 without any defilers ( we have 3 of them) . Than we had do do it again, to get a flag for our defilers to be able to get into the next zone for the next named. So we put one defiler in a group with templer and warden. So 3 healers in one Group! It DID NOT WORK. Damage incomming for single hits got too high. Defilers are wiping your force with their bugged bleadthrough espcially on the hard T3 and T4 nameds ( Expert zones the same problem by the way). Our Main Defiler hast quit raiding now and cancelled her subscribsion because she feels to be a burden to the force, knowing that the incomming damage the defiler creates whipes us. This problem is 4 month old and has not been taken serious by Daybreak untill now. It's very sad to see good players leave as they feel that Daybreak is not able anymore to controll the game.
  14. headbusta Active Member

    The first log line that says:

    "Person1's Ward absorbs 275890 points of damage from being done to Person2 with 12677607 points of damage bleeding through."

    Does not represent the total damage, it represents the ward amount and the maximum possible bleedthrough. It doesn't let you know how much damage went through that's not bleedthrough damage. Bleedthrough in the logs is just a representation of the amount of damage that was guaranteed to bleedthrough, not the total amount that went through the ward. There should technically be an end to the log line that says "...and xxx,xxx,xxx damage blowthrough. (yes coined my own term)" If the first ward in line and every ward after is large enough to absorb everything possible (the 40% not going to bleedthrough on Shade) then there is no blowthrough and things work out fine.

    [IMG]


    I re-did the calcs for Errrorr's log lines he posted, assuming all the Total Incoming damages match, since those weren't given, everything works out. BTW both Umbral and Carrion warding don't print a bleedthroug portion of the log line, but damage does in fact bleedthrough them.

    [IMG]


    Bleedthrough percent remains constant (other than what appears to be a bug with the Templar epic ward), doesn't change the fact that some groups take on ton more damage on Shade than other groups. I did a tick-by-tick check of people in our group and damage incoming doesn't correlate with Nightmares being on the mob, and we've tried entire pulls with no Nightmares at all and nothing seems to change.

    From our last Shade kill the average hits (only the AoE) in each group:

    [IMG]

    I was in the Defiler/Templar group as Zerker, if you take my incoming hits out which are generally lower cause of damage reduction, Defiler/Templar and Warden/Inquis groups are pretty close. The Defiler/Templar group is the MT group and probably has some of the best geared players in raid, the Mystic that solo healed is a part-time raider that didn't even meet the resolve check.
    Quigly likes this.
  15. headbusta Active Member

    Went in just me and a Defiler and did some more testing...obviously the numbers are vastly out of proportion due to being 210 resolve short. But there was no huge jump in incoming damage for the Defiler being in group, or from any certain wards being up. Tried the Nightmares thing again and didn't see a difference, not sure if the rumored "bug" would even happen if Nightmares wasn't doing damage cause of the low resolve, but like I've said we've done entire real pulls with no Nightmares and never seen a difference in damage.

    Damage is consistent or at least the difference is explainable, we didn't have time to test every possible Defiler damage spell/debuff combo, but this at least seems to rule out the wards, or possibly even place blame on some other non-defiler group/raid buff.

    [IMG]
    [IMG]
  16. Fleurs Active Member

    According to a previous thread there were a discussion about why the bleedthrough amount seemed to varie instead of staying at a fixed amount. That was back before Kunark, when Nizara was current content.

    I said that:

    And Caith answers was:


    As Caith own a Dev tag, and since i never read anything about a change in the combat log in any patch note, and since actually, on the combat log, there is still no info on the amount of damage that goes over the ward amount (what you call blowthrough), i would tend to think you are wrong in your assumption and that "blowthrough" damage are still referenced as bleed in the log.

    But if you are right, then it would really clear up things, if dev would make the change that allow us to see the "blowthrough" amount.

    I wonder if, instead of defiler increasing the damage, it would be mystic decreasing the damage more than they should.
  17. Genmarion New Member

    I think the bug is with how it's reading or logging, not with the actual damage we're taking. I could be wrong, but my two cents after solo healing Terris on Defiler. I don't think it's any more/less between Defiler/Mystic. It just looks like it on paper. My logs are all kinds of squirrely but that doesn't match up to what I'm experiencing in game. I think it's just a lot of damage, and the logs aren't reading bleedthrough correctly in all cases. Why I don't know, but it isn't impacting my ability to heal at all.
  18. duckster Active Member

    You guys running inq in raid?
    Darly likes this.
  19. Carthago Member

    where is the answer on the inqui in raid? Or would that spoil your story?
    I mean, we are just noobs, only playing our char since 12 year and geared to the top, 32 k pot. No inquis in raid. but 3 defilers. Doesn't work. We even testet a group with defiler, templer and fury. No chance, max one hits killed this group. But on Mystics no problem. We must be noobs as Genmarion heals the group solo as a defiler. So the devs already say; "that broken healer who can do therris solo?" OK dev's, you trust one Genmarion, but don't take us serious? you talk about a display issue? Sure, come in and play that defiler with us and show it is a display issue.
    Darly likes this.
  20. Quigly Active Member


    I hadn't betrayed back to defiler yet as genmarion seemed to be the only one trying to propogate information that suggested it was fixed and had no logs or other information to back it up.

    Thanks for confirming that I can remain a mystic for now!