Bleed through...from the post in the beta forums, some clarification please

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Loke, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. Revanu Well-Known Member

    Yea mystics don’t bring much to the grp. Just a lot of Crit Bonus, combat art fervor and hp boosts via heals, and a multitude of “oh snap” moment saves via channeling > eidolon > channeling > tap > totemic. If you are struggling as a mystic then you are a bad mystic. Simple as that. Many a mystic has solo healed t1/t2 with much success so the arguement of its too hard is a joke. If you are struggling as a mystic then you need to get better, you need to figure out what works and what doesn’t. This nonsense of the ward not reading properly on grp members is simply a log issue. Rest assured it works properly and is allocated appropriately so please don’t use that nonsense as a scapegoat.
    Magmag likes this.
  2. gixxstiality New Member

  3. Mermut Well-Known Member

    The group ward IS applying to the whole group. In PoP, or perhaps KA, they changed the way the ward is LOGGED however (which is what ACT uses to determine parses) and all the damage from the ward LOGS (and hence parses) as being applied to the shaman.
    From experience, I can guarantee that the group ward IS applying to the entire group.
    Why the devs decided the change to the logging for the shaman group wards was a good idea is a mystery we may never solve... but as a shaman trying to figure out what's going on.. it sucks.
    Melkior likes this.
  4. Magmag Active Member

    *In my best Maury voice* You said you don't need easy mode. Our lie detector test determined THAT was a lie.
  5. Melkior Well-Known Member

    Troll me if you like. I can take it, I have a thick skin and have been through far worse in life than a few people thinking I don't know how to play my class. I have been a successful raiding mystic since the early days of Rise of Kunark. I know the ins and outs of the class. Or I did. The fact that I studied my logs to see if I could figure out what I could do to improve my healing, shows that I'm working at it. I'm thankful to know that the issue with the group ward is rendering, it will let me turn my attention elsewhere. I appreciate that info Revanu, even if it was delivered with sarcasm. I know my gear needs some work, and that will help. I'll adjust my spell rotation the best I can as well. I'm sure I will get better. It just may not be as fun as it has been in the past. Drastically changing the mechanics of a class this late into the game just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But I guess that is why I'm not a game designer.
    Yumie likes this.
  6. Magmag Active Member

    They didn't change the mechanics of the class dude. They just made mobs deal damage that bypasses wards to balance out healing because shamans have been easy mode while being the absolute best healers for so many expansions now. It's ridiculous that they are not the most OP, broken, easy mode class for ONE expansion and everybody starts whining about it and calling the classes useless. You could play a defiler reasonably well with only 1 hotbar last expansion. It was getting ridiculous that all hard content basically REQUIRED a shaman or it was twice as hard. Now it's balanced so you will have to either bring a second healer to heal the bleedthrough or learn to adapt. All content outside of raids is now solo-healable by all healers as long as the character has proper gear, your group isn't hot garbage, and the healer is in the hands of a capable player. The only healers that should be complaining are inquisitors, because they still seem to be at the bottom of the pecking order. Even though they can heal everything, there's just no reason to bring one over a Templar or something else.
  7. Yumie New Member

    Balance out healing?!?! As you just said mobs now deal damage that bypasses wards. Wards is exactly how a Warder heals. If you make our wards 60-30% less affective then you have in effect decreased our healing ability. If the developers had made mobs that dealt damage that bypasses HOTs you would be up in arms. If they (the developers) wanted to show effectiveness of other healer classes heals then they should of came up with a new way heals and wards showed in parses not just bypass/bleed through of wards. Lets face it the whole reason Developers change wards was because of those heal parses that people say are overrated.
  8. Clintsat Well-Known Member

    Shaman heal with more than just wards and druids heal with more than just HoTs. It is more than fair now that each priest has to rely on multiple tools to be successful.
    Magmag likes this.
  9. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Heal parses are a very poor measure of healing effectiveness. A healer that is quick on cures will have a LOWER heal parse than one that is slack about curing because the fast cure reduces the damage done to the healer's group. A healer that has a bunch of damage reduction on their group will have a lower heal parse (and a much more stable group) than a healer w/o damage reduction.

    I'm sure that people moaning about the heal parse is part of why for some of the changes to how heals work. Unfortunately, that only means that the devs are catering to the people who don't understand what the heal parse does and doesn't show.. and/or the devs don't understand it themselves.
    Anjel and Magmag like this.
  10. Mhoramm Member

    Wards got to be extremely inflated with the increase in stats. That in turn made it difficult to balance damage for all healers and incoming damage got to be so high that other healers couldn't compete (keep people alive) effectively, or at all.
    Bleedthrough is the attempt to fix that. I dont think it's a perfect fix but shaman can still keep a group up and now other healer classes can too.
    Magmag likes this.
  11. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Wards weren't any bigger than heals.. the problem was that potency/cb/ab mod got inflated at an exponentially larger rate than player hit points. That made heal size irrelevant while ward size was still useful.

    Part of the problem I see this expac is they did a double whammy of the massive (and mysterious/black box) heal debuff AND the bleed through changes. Healing is much 'spammier' for most healer classes this expac, but while I don't have to resort to spamming single target hots on random group members with my warden, I HAVE had to resort to it with my mystic. Defilers have less issues since they have more 'over time' healing (nightmares and maelstrom).
  12. Mhoramm Member

    I didn't say wards were bigger than heals. I said wards got to be inflated.
    Wards used to be much smaller. IIRC they weren't affected by potency or crit bonus or some such. They changed that and then the the stat inflation started.
  13. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    Regardless of what changed, it would have been better to have reduced the amount each individual ward could absorb and allowed us to continue layering wards. Even if they needed to get rid of some wards, that would still have been better than this bleedthrough farrago.
    Songwind likes this.
  14. Mermut Well-Known Member

    They WERE affected by crit bonus and potency. Until ToV, they only got partial crit bonus.
    The stat inflation (without including health in the inflation) is the cause of 'disparate' size of wards.

    You CAN have multiple wards on a target, and when one gets 'used' up the next will continue to protect the target...
    That's why it's VERY important, now, to put the single target ward on the tank and THEN cast the group ward. That way the tank uses up the point ward before using up the group ward.
    Songwind likes this.
  15. Magmag Active Member

    Just read the other responses in this thread. Clearly some people get it. Now you have to use more than a handful of buttons but shaman can keep groups alive just fine. Good shaman can still solo heal the same amount of stuff they could before. It's just not nap-time easy mode. I played a defiler last expansion in all the heroic and a majority of the raid content. It was so easy and boring that I could have literally put a blindfold on and rotated 5 buttons and kept the group alive...
  16. Mermut Well-Known Member

    I'm actually finding healing MORE boring this expac.. u
    Until content is trivial, solo healing is now 'all healing all the time'. It's effective, sometimes nerve-racking to keep everybody alive, but not very interesting or fun.
    Songwind likes this.
  17. Mhoramm Member

    Too me that is how healing used to be anyway so I dont mind it as much. That's WHY I play a healer and not a dps. I try to squeeze out as much dps as I can but healing is foremost and it's fine by me. And the harrowing moments when something goes wrong and I have to figure out how to keep the group going, furiously clicking my saves or ST heals and we still win, that's why I play a healer. But I feel like I'm in the minority lately.
    Magmag and Breanna like this.
  18. Mermut Well-Known Member

    I do try to do as much dps as I can while keeping my group alive and stable. Some tough fights where we have to pull out all the stops are nice too.
    Having most/all fights be all/most healing all the time, however, gets really boring, really fast.
  19. Anjel Member

  20. Magmag Active Member

    If you don't like having to heal constantly then maybe healing isn't for you. That's kind of the job description. I, on the other hand, find it boring to be stuck with nothing to do but dps when I'm playing my healer. I play a healer to heal, and want the challenge to be keeping my group alive, not competing with support classes on the dps parse.
    Anjel, Dude, Breanna and 1 other person like this.