Bleed through...from the post in the beta forums, some clarification please

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Loke, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. Melkior Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure why everyone is so hostile here. It's possible to talk mechanics and healing strategies without belittling someone's skill. As a shaman, my first instinct when I see someone taking damage is to throw a ward on them, then hit my group heal to replenish the whole group. That method worked great for a long time. With Pact last expansion, I changed my thinking and I started to hit single target heals more often instead. But there was a period of time while I adjusted where a heads up would have been nice. With the way Bleedthrough now works, the additional ST ward is completely ineffective if the group ward is up, so I hit Torpor or another ST heal.

    Bottom line, I don't mind at all when people in my group use Pact. In fact if it helps the mobs die faster, I prefer it. Is it courteous to let a shaman you are not familiar with know you are using it, since you don't know how they manage their spell rotation? Sure is. Will I figure it out fairly quickly on my own if not informed? Absolutely. Maybe it's just me, but I think so many of these type of issues can be solved if everyone makes a small effort to be kind to each other. I guess that's a step too far even in a fantasy world.
    Songwind, Mermut and Sigrdrifa like this.
  2. Melkior Well-Known Member

    Tertiary healer? Wow that brings back memories. One of each healing type in the main tank group on tough raid encounters when under geared.
    Last time I did that was back in the first Kunark! Those were good times!
    Breanna likes this.
  3. Magmag Active Member

    Did you read the thread? It all started off amicably enough, but then a couple terrible players continued to say stuff is impossible because they are incapable of playing their class. Instead of saying okay and learning how to play it they decided to keep whining and arguing, presumably in hopes that DBG will balance the game's class and dungeon design around their ineptitude. It gets pretty old reading that at the start of every expansion. All the flavor of the month (or flavor of the past 5 years) players that aren't good whine when their class gets nerfed so everybody can see what they are/aren't capable of. Or you have people that have played a shaman longer than that and they never learned how to play it but they became so powerful that they didn't have to and now they don't want to fade back to mediocrity. Mystics are the most desired healer in the game right now...
    Breanna and Revanu like this.
  4. Earar Well-Known Member

    and peeps who use pact should also familiarize with the healer and check if the healer will manage.

    coz if not that's the dps who will die, not the healer ... so whatever
    Songwind likes this.
  5. Songwind Member

    I whined a lot about how DB changed Bleed Through, not happy with it. Most of my whining I think is due to 14-15 years of continuous playing this game and I just sort of hit a brick wall, dang I have to do this all over again (gear up & etc) then the double whammy of bleed through change. A lot of people get tired of doing that and others find it to be a thrill and a challenge. I have not even logged in for close to a month and have sort of started to miss the game.

    I do not know about other healers but I really get upset when a party member of mine dies, don't like my group members dieing. Which sort of brings me to Pact, it is not that I cannot heal through it but it is really smart and nice to tell your healers you are running it, any type of healer. I rather know it before the party wipes to figure it out on my own.
  6. Earar Well-Known Member

    when someone dies .. always need to check why.

    is it a fail condition, is it a hit way higher than the player's HPl ? is it coz the player was too far ? is it a lack of healing ?

    there are a lot of reasons why a player could die ... and a lot where u can't do nothing about. So just learn to relax and accept deaths :) ... makes a healer's life way easier :p
    Songwind likes this.
  7. Sykle Active Member

    Sure, but if someone dies, and you do nothing to prevent it in the future, then you will never get better. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.
  8. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Tell that to dps that constantly pulls aggro, causes the group to take a frontal or just gets killed themself. :p
    Breanna and Songwind like this.
  9. Magmag Active Member

    If a dps is pulling aggro then the tank needs to do something to prevent it. The job of the dps is to kill the mob, not manage aggro for the tank.
    Revanu likes this.
  10. Sykle Active Member

    I use my dehates and threat positionals in the rare occasions that i pull aggro off the tanks. But in our guild we have absolutely zero aggro problems because our tank know how to hold aggro. :)P)
  11. Songwind Member

    I agree 100% that is one of the tanks job, but not all tanks are created equal. It is just as important for a High DPSer to start spamming those de-aggro and maybe not throw that big one when he is sitting at 90 on the threat window. Sometimes you have to modify your play to match group make up so you and the group stays alive.
    Breanna likes this.
  12. Sigrdrifa Well-Known Member

    That is so gosh-darn wrong. Every individual in a group or raid has to work together for the success of the group or raid.

    This means that the dang DPS needs to do a number of things rather than face-rolling:
    • Don't gank aggro.
      • Do not start hitting the mob until the tank has good aggro.
      • Do not pull accidentally on purpose because you think the tank is too slow.
      • Use any aggro transfer tools you have.
      • Use any deaggro tools you have if you catch aggro.
      • Run to the tank if you catch aggro. Running away from the tank like a junebug on crack just means they can't taunt it off you, and you're probably moving out of heal range at the same time.
    • Inform your healer if there's anything you have that may affect healing.
      • Are you wearing some gear or using some buff that is eating your health? Be sure the healer knows so they can watch for sudden spikes. If you have a particular spell/CA that eats health, it isn't a bad idea to send a group chat message "Casting X, need a heal please".
      • Are you using something (item or spell) that affects heals and/or wards? Tell the healer! Don't make them guess: in the middle of healing the whole group, for example, don't make the healer waste time figuring out that their wards aren't gonna work on you.
    • Carry a set of cure potions, health potions, and power reg items/potions. Self-cure when you can or if the healer is too busy simply trying to keep everyone alive.
    • Know what support class buffs you need, and make sure you get them. Ask if you need to.
    Songwind and Breanna like this.
  13. Earar Well-Known Member

    well if someone dies and I didn't heal .. sure it's my fault. if they get oneshotted, there's little I could have done

    if fail script, little I could do.

    so no .. i cannot get better unless I start going into the script/program
  14. Revanu Well-Known Member

    There are 2 separate reaponse to this.
    1 is for raid purposes -

    If you raid then you already know how and what to do in order to gain maximum achievement. If you have to double check with your grp mates in order to gain a better sense of play style, then that said raid is tragically craptastic. Raiders SHOULD know wtf they are doing prior to joining a raid guild otherwise they’re wasting time. In response to your dps gank aggro spew, dps Job is dps. Tanks job is allow dps to dps. So if dps has to wait for tank to do his job then said tank is also bad. There are so many ways a tank can absolutely reign supreme with aggro EVEN IN AUBTLE STRIKES! (Points to tank rune)

    Regarding heroic - ya don’t care. It’s heroic. Just find a good player and hop in their backpack

    This game Is made tricky and frustrating due to this acceptable standard of being adequately insufficient at your class and being fearful of constructive or non constructive criticism.

    If I want to get better, I do what ever I can. Compare and contrast. Test and adjust. Adapt and achieve.

    Get better.
  15. Sykle Active Member

    1. A good tank will try to put out as much hate and dps as possible in the first 10s of the fight to account for this. As long as the tank is the first person to pull the mob. It should obviously not need to be said that you shouldn't prepull the mob before the tank does. Anyone who does this deserves to die a painful death.
    2. As a DPS in a raid setting, if you need to be told to use your threat TRANSFER abilities, and be told to not pre-pull the mob, then you are by far the worst player playing this game and should probably uninstall the game and download Fortnite so you can die over and over to 11 year olds who are better than you.
    3. In a raid setting you should not need to be told to do things like "hey cast a heal i'm using lifeburn", because lifeburn has been and always will be terrible, and if you, as a healer, need to be told to heal, then you should probably change something about your playstyle. If you need to be told to use your noxious ward when your group is dying over and over again to noxious damage, you should probably change the class you are playing.
    We are talking about raiding here. The top 5% of the knowledge base when it comes to mechanics.

    TLDR: If you are raiding in this game, and need your hand held to do so, then stop raiding until you can understand that being self sufficient, and improving yourself is the best thing you could possibly do for yourself.
    Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.
  16. Songwind Member

    I was reading this thread from the beginning and I saw something I missed or forgot. That being wards do not stack so if a bleed through is suppose to do 50% damage to a health pool that is what will happen no matter how many wards I have up??

    So if I have Soul Shackle and Umbral Warding both running that will make no difference to the amount of damage a person will receive?

    That makes me wonder if I have a solo ward running on a person and a group ward running will it make any difference to the person the solo ward is on?

    If wards do not stack then if I have Prophetic Ward running on the fights that it will work for and any other group ward would Prophetic ward prevent noxious damage and the other group ward prevent other damage at the same time or none?

    Since bleed through increased I would have hoped the cast time and recast time of Transcendence would have decreased but no............I love Totemic Protection but its recast time is really long at 2mins and a duration of 15secs is the pits.

    I wonder when we can use Wendigo anymore since we cannot heal while it is up. Quite a useless Epic 2.0 spell anymore.

    I do try and figure things out using ACT but I usually fail miserably. Funny but with all this said I notice in Group Heroics that Druid healers kick my butt but in Raids I far out heal them, strange.
  17. Songwind Member

    Can I start flipping tables? :)
  18. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Damage specific wards and general wards 'sort of' stack...
    Let us say a particular boss has 50% bleedthrough (the amount of BT clearly varies from ability to ability, even from the same boss, but I'm just pretending they're all at 50% for the sake of this example)
    The noxious (or arcane or elemental) ward, will ward 50% of the incoming noxious damage, the rest will get through
    The 'regular' ward will take 50% of all non-noxious damage, the rest will get through.
    In this case, the two 'sort of' stack because some abilities do 2 types of damage and each type can be warded individually.

    If you have 2 wards stacked on a person, the first ward you cast on them will take 50% of the incoming damage, the rest will get through. The 2nd ward will take none of the damage unless the first ward was 'used up' before 50% of the incoming damage was absorbed.

    This expansion, I have completely ditched Prophetic Ward in exchange for Totemic Protection.
    Solo healing on a mystic is rough this expac. It involves ALOT of direct healing.
    Example: Solo healing Air EH expert on my mystic, despite having umbral warding up 100% of the time, wards (all wards from all sources) were less then 25% of my total healing in the zone.
    When solo healing I am literally waiting on the cool down of Transcendence and spot filling with single target direct heals. If it weren't for the melee buffs mystic give, I don't think anybody would want them in raids. If I liked the scouts in my mystic's raid less, I might have declined to raid on her at all, but we all know how those silly scouts get about their buffs ;) I only started playing a shaman last expac, and this expac has done the opposite of endear me to playing them.
    Songwind likes this.
  19. Raff Well-Known Member

    I main a Defiler. For years. And I can solo heal T2 experts. But this xpac really takes a lot of the fun out it, lol. Sometimes, I would rather just go harvest than run in groups.

    Or something else equally play a dps class.
    Loke and Songwind like this.
  20. Loke New Member

    Agreed. While it's possible for me to solo heal T2 experts it's a stressful grind to do so. The only time I can even think about DPS is when Spirit Tap is running or occasionally during Totemic Protection. Even some fights in T1 experts it's all I can do to keep up with the pulse damage. On average my wards now account for 20-24% of my heal parse despite group ward being on the group 100% of the time we're in combat, single target ward on multiple people and Soul Shackle cast every time it's up.

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