If enough people moan about a “problem†on the boards Marketing tell the Devs it has to be sorted. Usually before the “I am leaving EQ because my Guardian is nerfed†posts. As I am sure you are aware on the Guardian board its just complaint after another about us. It would be helpful if some of are higher level Berserkers posted (not flame) their board so the devs don’t just have one side to read. BTW the Guardians never complain about Crusaders being able to take more damage than them or Brawlers doing more damage than them its always aimed at us. Message Edited by Pretext on 12-05-2004 07:30 AM Message Edited by Pretext on 12-05-2004 07:31 AM
Its more of an issue of Sony made the guardian class worthless against the berserker class. You guys outdamage and taunt them. Many went into guardian thinking it was the main "Tank" class in the warrior group, and now it a worthless class. There needs to be a balancing, either way you look at it, or there will be no guardians, and a million berserkers running around. crusaders having more staying power is comparative to paladins in EQ1, and brawlers doing more damage like with monks. No one expects the tank to be the best at everything. Just good at one thing so they can contribute to the group...but now, guardians can't contribute well because they are currently eclipsed by berserkers.
I fail to see why they think they need to nerf us, sure we can wear the same armor and use shields but they mitigagte damage much better than us where we deal damage better than them. From the post I read they want to be more like berserkers rather than fix their class, SOE has already stated that ALL fighters classes can tank but that some are better at certain things than others. In my experience healers go through alot more mana if I MT than if a guardian does so there is a big difference there. If SOE decides to "nerf" us rather than adjust Guardians I say we cry nerf to the guardian class and let me absorb damage like they do. Seems fair since they want to do the same things as us....just my 2 cents.
Agree with yall and for the most part, the guardian skills need to be adjusted so that they're actually worth using and bloodlust might need to be toned down because of its immense agro, we just can't compete with that at higher levels I'm hearing. For the time being guardians are just basic warriors...taunt bots if you like. No other useful skills besides the ones every other tank gets so we just need some solid ability amps rather than making every other class get nerfed. Catulu UlvKrigare Guardian of Qeynos~Everfrost <Forgotten Bloodline>
It seems to me the problem is the Berserker skill Bloodlust is doing far more agro than one would think it should. Guardians mitigate better but they get pissy if someone out-taunts them. I can understand that, keeping agro is the main tanks job. So it's either we Zerks cut our damage output by about 1/3rd or we grab agro.
The way i understand it bloodlust contantly procs a buff and generates agro. It possible to just make the buff no-agro or will it **** zerkers too much?
They need to do 2 things to the berserk skill. Make it a non-aggro buff, and make it last more than one milisecond.
I think thats a big part of the problem. It also prevents the zerker from playing DPS when he is not the main tank.
Yep it's frustrating for both sides. If I'm the MT I'll normally go to my shield and 1 hander, upside being I can use Bloodlust and hold agro easily. Downside is lower DPS than dual wield. If I have another Tank as MT and want to go dual wield set up, I better not use Bloodlust and I'll have a hard time procing berserk so my DPS isn't maximized. Bloodlust, going by the description: seems to be tailor made for off tanking. Yet as it stands it prevents off tanking.
And please don't say we want you nerfed. I don't think any of us want you nerfed, I think we just want ours rebalanced, changing our post 19 abilities to be defensive buffs for ourselves where yours would give you offensive buffs. That's basically what the gripe has been narrowed down to. And the fix for the uber aggro generated by bloodlust. heh. But I think that's agreed upon that it's not a nerf but a fix on both sides of this?
they can take more dmg we can aggro better,dont seea problem here,why choose berserker if guardian is the typical MA in groups? SOE said all classes can tank in the fighter tree,they didnt say guradians is the ultimate tank for all situations,tanking isnt only about taking dmg,they sohuld have thought off that before they choose thier class.
To me it seems like a lot of the Guardian complaints are being filed by people who played Warriors in EQ1 or who went on a one-line description of the class from a fansite to pick it without doing any research, and as a result expected Guardians to be the be-all end-all tanks who are just better at tanking than anybody else. The devs have said that EQ2 *does not* work that way... the previous 'zerker poster made that mostly correct point despite his admittedly bad grammar. While I would argue that point, and I do think the aggro on Bloodlust needs to be tuned down, I think otherwise things are working exactly as intended. Having the Berserk status on makes our damage mitigation worse than yours. Without that status, or the skills that induce it, we really don't do much more damage other than the fact that many of us go 2H or DW instead of 1H+S. It's also worth noting that people should stop whining about nerfing this or that or rebalancing this and that until multiple people of each class are 50 and we have a better idea how classes balance out then. Better to balance the endgame than balance the road there and potential throw the endgame completely out of whack. I have absolutely no doubt that you guys will end up being the endgame raid tanks, so let's wait until the game really starts before we start worrying about whose tanking is 6% more efficient.
Guardian is a better tank than us, It starts to show later in lvls. A lot of the people moaning about the classes and skills so far seem to be jsut hitting 20..at least the stuff I have been reading... actually I think when all is said and done the Berserker will need some love before any nerfs
Guardian is a far better for taking damage. Zerker is far better at dealing damage then tanking. Never understand why a Zerker would go shield and sword, hell i even hate using soldier stance. Best way to hunt that I have seen is Zerker goes offensive while the Guardian shields him. This seems to be how the class way meant to be used but people still having issues with the "old" warrior template from eq1. MT is the MT is the MT and the MT is only the MT if they hold the aggro. Its a new game and new classes. Adapt Evolve
Actually I think we are all looking at this totally wrong... there are two tanks in this game...they BOTH need to "tank" equally as well IMO. How many healer classes are there? Is there only ONe that can primary heal? no How bout Dps....there are good number of Dps in game...Wiz...Assassin..brawlers/..monks...any of them the best Dps? no they all fill the role. Same needs to go for Tanks...tehre are TWO MT's is in game and we need them to both do it equally as well yet do it differently for diversity. The berserker Class defnitly needds some adjustment..but to nerf its tankage is wrong..and to nerf its damage output is wrong....we need some balance... If we cant MT we sure arent prime Dps....wth will we be? Summoner or Necro issue class? At 50 and raiding we need to be able to fill the MT role...jsut do it differntly than a guardian..but jsut as effective. If there is only ONE MT out there...everyone suffers and thats poor diversity... So think about what you want..but if you opt out to petition for more damage and not equality with guaridian on tanking...then you may find yourself a dud class when it comes to end game raids and groups. Berserker will not compare to assassin or wiz or other high end Dps when it comes to output....The gorups in this game have NO room for pity classes....6 memebers limits anyone from overlapping anothers role and no lame ducks allowed.....if your are Tank class you ***I sooo love EQ2!*** well better be able to MT..casue nobody is looking for you to fill the Dps spot.
If you tjek the posters you might notice that its all the work of a few zealots. If you also tjek their ratings you might note that they are not excatly getting top ratings. I play a guardian. I am happy playing a guardian. I do not have issues with my damage. I do not have issues with my agro. I do have issues with beserkers having stellar agro even if its agreed I am to tank. But that seems more broken then intended. I can hold agro fine with scouts and mages owning mobs with damage, if I just get a chance to build a little agro. So Either bloodlust is only meant to be used for tanking or its broken in its current form. For now I say its early in the game. I am enjoying myself. I am happy with my tank ability. I do not expect to be the only class able to tank. I love the core approach EQ2 is build around and I pray it will continue to hold true. Granbar 25 guardian / 24 alchemist Runnyeye (to be amsterdam server when it is opened for trasfere)
The issue seems to be primarily that Bloodlust generates too much aggro, OR guardian taunts generate too little. Making bloodlust have NO aggro would make it harder for berserkers to be MT (or less easy than it is now if you prefer). Also alot of times berserkers will have it up at the start of a fight. It seems like whichever tank aggros the mob first seems to have an easier time holding aggro (i.e if I'm MT and another tank gets aggro I have to spam several taunts to get it back even if they never taunted to being with, for example perhaps they hit the mob first). So not having bloodlust up at the start to prevent the initial few berserks may help. Maybe casting it midfight after the guardian's had a chance to build up aggro.
I'm starting to see the point to all this Shouldn't have said anything till I was in the post 20 game.. sorry (differant post)
Ok I'm a 29 guardian. I don't want Zerkers to be nerfed. You guys are fine. You can hold Aggro thru your Bloodlust and tank really well and also contribute dps. I can tank but can't out aggro you. In a group without a zerker that is fine but I simply CANNOT group with zerkers. You guys replace my only role - HP sponge - and no its not possible for me to out aggro you unless you significantly calm down on your specials (which is pointless in the end because you are just as good as tanking as me, so you might as well be the MT). I think Guardian's need to be buffed. Guardian's and Zerkers have essentially the same AC/HP and stats, you have more DPS/aggro generation. Guardian's have the lowest DPS of any class besides maybe healers. Guardian's need SOMETHING. Better taunts, better group buffs, better mitigation.. anything.
