Berserkers are you kidding me?!

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by Tharrakor, Aug 10, 2014.

  1. Avahlynn Well-Known Member

    Yeah, our guild needs our zerkers. We have a 95 and a baby that we are leveling up. We have a pally and an sk and are working on a guardian. Each has it's strengths and weaknesses. I can speak least concerning the guard as he's not end game yet. Sk is a great tank and does really better damage than our zerkers and pally, but unless he is spec'd and geared totally tanky tank, the zerkers tend to be better set to handle mobs that can overrun the sk. Against solo big bosses the zerkers are gonna not do so well, so that's why we are bringing up a guardian for those times. I don't think any of them are op, they are just very well set up for their area of talent. None of them are as they say in show business a "triple threat" (someone who can sing act and dance very well). Each tank we have has a specific role they shine in. We have a baby monk that I'm bringing up, so far she's been the easiest in low levels for tanking. Not sure by end game where she will be, but so far she's got a nice dps that the zerker did not at the same level.

    I don't raid so I can't speak to that, we mostly do advanced solos and heroics, so that's where my personal feelings are based. Zerkers are in a good place, so are sk. Neither did better than my monk is at the same level. Pallys so far seem the trickiest to play (or maybe they just aren't a good fit for the player bringing one up). I feel the sk is more effective than a pally at this point in time, but that may be a reflection of group composition, too.
    Targhan likes this.
  2. Targhan New Member

    Actually, that statement is very insightful. Regardless of class, a person will play it to the ability they, and the people around them, have. The original poster could have very easily been in a group with a higher end player, which could give the illusion that the tank he was grouped with was overly powerful. Perception plays a big role in this sort of thing, and I am pretty sure the poster didn't mention what healer was there -- likely he never even noticed. (There are crazy good healers who will treat a also like a challenge!) What's more, if someone is very lightly geared (cryptic or quest gear) then they will be blown away by anyone in high-end heroic gear -- let alone raid gear.

    I have a friend who can hit over 20M on a parse. And, nobody needs to come to the forums and complain that the guy's class is overpowered. The guy is in the top guild on our server, wearing the absolute best gear -- on top of knowing how to run his class at a high level. I also know several people who run the very same class who can't even eek out 2 million wearing raid gear. I promise there are Berserkers who can't hold hate, can't DPS, and can't stay upright.

    Finally, Ava's main point is valid as well. Just last night I pulled too many gobbies and rats in Pickclaw that hit our group with noxious detriments, and the healer was plate -- Not enough cure buttons. Boom. Wipe. Same healer, on the last named in the zone, we never stopped DPS on Bolgrin (ten zillion adds anyone?), and not even a hiccup. Remember AoD? Drunder? Hot swapping alts in a zone? Game mechanics, roles, gear, and skill all play a part in performance, and it's usually not some class being crazy OP.
    Avahlynn likes this.
  3. Targhan New Member

    Edit button seems broke...

    (There are crazy good healers who will treat a also like a challenge!)

    should read:

    (There are crazy good healers who also like a challenge!)
  4. Silzin Active Member

    Targhan and several others... I have played a Monk for a long time and i Know that player Perception of a class all depends on the Skill of the players they deal with. there is some point that classes do need to be brought down in power in reference to the other tanks... I am not here to say one way or the other about any class.

    But the Devs seem to Nurf classes based on popular appliance not actual Class performance.
  5. Corydonn Well-Known Member

    Pfffffft. You'd be lucky to see that number -worldwide- for Bruisers doing the high end content in ANY expansion. Even after Destiny of Velious, Our most overpowered moments.
  6. Avahlynn Well-Known Member

    Not to derail, but I know nothing at all about bruisers. What's their problems/weaknesses? In short, enlighten me (seriously, not trolling).
  7. Corydonn Well-Known Member

    There are a few threads on it but the two main things is

    1. Bruisers don't get any stats from AAs that aren't shared with monk, (50% strikethrough-100% AE 35% strikethrough etc) That other tanks have so they are already behind on gearing and are the tank that gets the least amount of help from Mitigation gear already by having the lowest base mit.

    2. Monks do everything stronger, faster, harder (Ok maybe not that one!) better.
    Avahlynn likes this.
  8. Avahlynn Well-Known Member

    Thank you! As I only have a baby monk I've not gone into research mode on monks/bruisers yet. I appreciate the info!
  9. mouser Well-Known Member

    Because performance only matters so far as it impacts player choice (from a top view game design perspective). If Wizards were uberpowered but nobody played them because they had to wear an ugly pointy hat, then there would be no reason to nerf them. If Swashbucklers were underpowered but everyone played them because they got to wear the Ratonga **** Hat (Best reason to play RDM in FF XI), they would probably be nerfed.

    Perception > Reality in many cases.
  10. Silzin Active Member


    I do not disagree with you since i do not play a Bruiser. But from what i have seen from others Pre-ToV... Bruisers where the proffered Brawler over monks in High End Raiding guilds. Monks have nice stuff and i think that Monks and Bruisers need to have more differences in tanking and DPS... there have been several threads about both Monks and Bruisers so this is not the place to hash it out.

    I do agree that ATM Bruisers are in a much harder place then monks tho.
  11. Corydonn Well-Known Member

    Bruisers were never preferred over monks in any expansion. In fact to get into my raid guild of 5 years I had to lie and say I was going monk to just get in!
  12. Genghes Active Member

    A bruiser betraying to monk! What has this game come to.....
  13. Treejay Active Member

    i saw a lot more bruisers than monks in the past years until now. Personally.. the difference then was so minuscule.
  14. Malleria Well-Known Member

    Consistent one shots weren't as common in the past, so the need for an unbroken temp chain wasn't as dire (SG raid not included, because Gen'Ra is a poopy face). Also bodyguard of stone was awesome pre-nerf.
  15. Silzin Active Member


    i know Pre-ToV on m Monk i had a Lot of fights that i have to keep a 100% Temp rotation up for in order to just survive or I would just get one-shot. Plate tanks did not have it quite as bad tho (some named excluding).
  16. Anghammarad Well-Known Member

    I'm playing a Mouzerker...

    I can say, many things depend on the support/buffs/even heals.

    We aren't immortal... but it may seem so. Due to having some abilities that prevent our early death like:

    Visions of Madness, Unyielding Will and Rampagers Resilience.

    When Timed good with other abilities you may live forever... I once used visions of madness 2 times, unyielding will 2 times and rampagers once in one fight... was a little confused raid... pickup...

    Sure other tanks couldn't do that, but still, I'm not immortal. I can die too when 2 spikes hit or even one. Often my health bar is playing PONG... down and up again.

    Another day same lab pickup raid a monk tanked everything, did an awesome job as well. I think I was there with my ranger then.

    So every Tank can look invincible or immortal if the others in his/her/its group are doing a good job as well.

    Someone told me he deleted his zerker due to being eazymoooood tank and he was told he could tank dominion (T3) with quest gear...

    Seriosly, you can't.

    Word of mouth, seeing some good Zerkers, never having played one.

    That for, before venting about any class, play it at least once in highlevel/endcontend.


    When you take a look at my signature, I play 5 of these alts activly. 3 of them even in raids.


    Anecdote at the end...

    We did a kind of Pickup Ages End EZ x2. Everything went well, crystalls dropped like a charm, we had decent but now whoaaaa dps with us, the healers did an awesome job... I was there with Yghi as MT. Firiona keeled over, our Channeler picked up the staff, went back to the group spot... little Yghi went to Rhoen Theer and said :"Ey Biggie! come down here and I'll sqeak you right into your Toe!". Then I hit some temps due to having it easier for me to park him in his spot. Aggro was not a problem at all... and then he hit me like a ton of rectangular building thingies. My little Yghi was a onehit, as well as anyone else.

    Seems he was X4.

    The next try went well though.


    Cheers
    Ang
  17. Treejay Active Member

    I cleared the xpac as a zerker. It is easymode. To say it isn't is just not true... If you have any grasp on how to play this game you will know that it takes almost no effort to live constantly.
  18. Tharrakor Well-Known Member

    I agreed zerker is pretty easy to play and look good with. When I get buffed up my hp amount makes sure I need very little healing. Honestly tho I did'nt make this thread to ask for a zerker nerf or anything like that, I would never do that. Like many have stated I agreed that its the current zones making zerkers so good. There's just waay too many adds and trash mobs around.

    I love the idea of HKC and in that zone zerker is'nt better then any other tank. I would love to see more zones like it in the next xpac, maybe without the stacking debuffs tho but with less trash who will instead hit a lot harder. Like karnors castle. Making shields vital again and stoneskins more usefull. Also many of the nameds in the heroic zones of the current xpac hit U like machineguns instead of slow and hard, wich I disslike aswell. I miss the old playstyle when you used to bodypull and avoid dangerous adds. Please bring back sum of the old playstyles :( IMO eq2 had its glorydays around the desert of flames expansion. Still love the game a lot but i miss the old days when everything was a lot more challanging
  19. Kalika Well-Known Member

    I like the idea of a debuf that increase the more encounter you have. I would put it everywhere but I would use a function that do not grow as fast, but still super-linear. Then obviously some trash should be removed from zones.

    Less trash but more dangerous one.The equivalent of sebilis Sks for people in faction/quested gear when ROK came out.

    Tanks DP and chains are also currently quite too strong in heroic, last Betrayer (the guy with planeshifter), super low dps group ... My paladin used LOH once, favor of mar triggered twice +DA and crusader faith and lot of self heals too ... and faith etc ...
  20. Treejay Active Member

    why would you want these heroic zones to last longer? It wotn make them harder at all. Just longer.