Berserkers are tanks!!!!

Discussion in 'Berserker' started by ARCHIVED-Halcat, Mar 8, 2006.

  1. ARCHIVED-Halcat Guest

    And for those of you that still might think otherwise......

    BERSERKERS ARE TANKS!!!!!!!!!
  2. ARCHIVED-Kaberu Guest

    Tanking is one of the jobs we do well and is inborn in our class. While we can't compete with pure DPS classes, we can tailor ourselves to be a durable DPS/off-hand tank which is far more suitable for soloing than most scouts. We can also be considered AOE DPS as we can often be unmatched in that department for melee DPS.

    To just buckle down and tank in the typical sense is to severely overlook some of the key strengths and potential of the Berserker class. By all means, limit yourself to tanking, but you should learn to deal with it if others find alternative ways to improve their class. I believe the jist of this post is:

    "If it's not the way I do it, it's wrong!!"
  3. ARCHIVED-Halcat Guest

    Not at all. I agree with you, but the fact of the matter is that most people tend to forget we are a tank class. That is what we were designed for and our primary purpose. To say and think otherwise is wrong. That we can fill secondary roles is a bonus.
    I posted what I did to remind us of our primary role and that our combat arts should fit our primary role first and foremost. Again that they allow us to fill a secondary role is a bonus.
    We ARE a tank class. We are NOT a dps class.
  4. ARCHIVED-FightGame Guest

    NOT THIS BERSERKER!!!

    I've decided to go with all leather, except for my cloth chest piece (it gives too much inteligence to pass up). It matches my buckler perfectly. Our pets tank the raids, and I run around casting intercede master 1 on our mages. And since I'm going up the stamina line, and getting more health, I'll be able to intercede even more. This is the way berserkers SHOULD be!! When are you all going to get this straight???
  5. ARCHIVED-Hunadi Guest

    FightGame wrote:
    NOT THIS BERSERKER!!!
    I've decided to go with all leather, except for my cloth chest piece (it gives too much inteligence to pass up). It matches my buckler perfectly. Our pets tank the raids, and I run around casting intercede master 1 on our mages. And since I'm going up the stamina line, and getting more health, I'll be able to intercede even more. This is the way berserkers SHOULD be!! When are you all going to get this straight???

    You're kidding right? If not, I'd like to see your stats and opinions on what kind of dps you can gain. What level are you?
  6. ARCHIVED-Halcat Guest

    For a second I almost took you post seriously. Then I re-read your line about the bucklers and started laughing at the sarcasim, LOL :smileyvery-happy:
  7. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    "Tanking is one of the jobs we do well and is inborn in our class."

    Correction. It is the only job that we can do well.

    "While we can't compete with pure DPS classes, we can tailor ourselves to be a durable DPS/off-hand tank which is far more suitable for soloing than most scouts."

    Right, but that does not change the fact that our only real job in groups (and raids) is being a tank. The extra damage we get compared to other tanks goes to aid in our tanking ability since we lack the defenses and the taunts of a Guardian. It helps us with soloing too. It does not help us to steal DPS spots from real DPS classes that can't do anything else but that one thing.

    "We can also be considered AOE DPS as we can often be unmatched in that department for melee DPS."


    No one cares if we have the most AOE melee DPS of all the classes in the game because there are Wizards and Warlocks with AOEs that can do 10 times more damage then ours and in much less time.

    "To just buckle down and tank in the typical sense is to severely overlook some of the key strengths and potential of the Berserker class."

    Then it doesn't sound like you know much about being an offensive tank.

    "By all means, limit yourself to tanking, but you should learn to deal with it if others find alternative ways to improve their class."

    SOE is the one that has limited us to tanking. They don't see fit to allow a class in the game that can fulfill two totally different roles with equal effectiveness. If we had the same DPS as a Wizard then there would be no reason for anyone to play a Wizard, right? And they chose to make us a tank instead of a DPS. There is not much you can really do about that except reroll if you're not happy. Or if you're happy pretending that you're a DPS when you're really not well good for you, at least you're happy and you're not whining to have the our tanking ability nerfed so you can get more DPS.
  8. ARCHIVED-Kaitar Guest

    I built my zerker to Tank. When I made the choice at the warrior progression test to go either Guardian or Zerker, I said : My static needs a tank. Zerkers and Guardians can both tank. Zerkers can add a little more damage to the party than a Guardian, and I don't plan on doing big raids, which Guardians are usually preferred to be MT. I may have to solo once in a while to get some things done (for instance, right now I'm doing the giant lore quest and soling 26-27 ^^^ at level 34) and I know Guardians solo very slowly.

    So...I chose my tank to be a zerker for pratical reasons. He's NOT a DPS. Our assassin is our DPS and our SK is our off tank and back up DPS. I'm the tank. I actually made the mistake once of PuG'ing for T'sanne. A 31 paladin in Carbonite armor, no shield, not that great of gear decided he wanted to tank over me in my nearly all legendary gear, big [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] legendary shield, and one hander sword (I'm not bragging about my gear, I'm saying .... <_< you know, the dude with the highest mitigation and the big [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] shield should be tanking, yar? )

    When I said "I think I should tank this" his reply is "why would a zerker want to tank?"

    @_@ because Zerkers are ....tanks...especially one that has been purposely geared for it, picked abilities for it, etc.

    Course he insisted. He died pretty fast.

    <_<
  9. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    Well goes to show you dont how to put your Berserker to its fullest potential.


    Your looking at it all wrong, as usual, but do explain to me how my ability to do damage helps me with the defensive capabilities a Guardians gets? That one has me stumped as im sure kaberu would be stumped on this one also.


    Acually up until Wizards got Rift, we did more AoE DPS then they ever could and Warlocks were king of the AoE DPS hill.


    :smileyvery-happy:
    Had a good chuckle here, inferus006 telling kaberu that is funny stuff.


    Again, not seeing the entire picture.
    Its because of mentailitys like this that get Berserkers in the pickle most people percieve we are suppose to be, people dont fully understand the Berserker class or what jobs we can acually fulfill, and because of posts like this one, its makes that perception issue even worse.
    Yeah we can tank, i think we established that 18 months ago when we found out that we could wear Vanguard armor, but we also serve another purpose too which it seems some people are just having a hard time ethier learning or seeing.
    Berserkers can be a jack of all trades, but compaired to a Guardian our tankability isnt quite as good as our ability leans to the offensive side of things, people who think we tank just as good as a Guardian ethier hasnt seen a experienced Guardian tank or hasnt seen a Guardian tank period, unless of course majority of the people who relate the two classes here speak from a group point of view which i think we pointed that out some time ago also.
    Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-09-200605:33 PM
  10. ARCHIVED-Legiax Guest

    Right...

    Well, i have all my CA's at Adept 3, with around 8 Masters. I use a pristine cobalt imbued greatsword, and have vanadium str rings / FBSS / fabled gloves / boots / helmet, each gives around +16 str as well as pristine imbued cobalt on the other bits.

    Generally in groups, if we've got a parser going, i will nearly always beat a same level Necro with adept 3's, i'll always beat monks... So how can you say we're not good at DPS?

    I've seen a lot of zerkers tanking, or trying to be DPS, and 90% of the time when i examine them, they've made crucial mistakes listed below:

    They've gone for Agility <---

    They aren't getting their Berserk CA into Adept 3 / Master <---

    They are Spamming CA's, then casting rampage and having nothing to use it with <---

    I truly think, if you play your class well, whatever it is, you can suprise people.

    And to those of you not willing to accept you might be wrong, The Necro is bloody good and does have Adept 3's.
  11. ARCHIVED-Wildfury77 Guest

    AoE DPS, balance between tanking/dps, melee damage and versatility........sounds like some of you should have rolled a swashbuckler!! A sword/shield swashbuckler with stamina line of achievements. Has avoidance of 50%+, nearly as high mitigation as a plate wearer and more hitpoints than SKs/paladins. We wipe the floor in DPS and have 2 taunts. Why try and do what we do.....less well??

    I LOVE grouping with a zerker, it gives rangers/assassins/swashies/brigands a massive DPS boost. Your strength groupbuff, group berserk, improved combat regen and peerless melee group tanking make your class loved by all melee scouts!
    If you chuck in a dirge and/or a monk(for haste) you have probably the most powerful group force around.
    I played in a group doing instances in SS/PoF with this setup

    1)Berserker (main tank) - all your lovely buffs mentioned above. +AoE
    2)Monk (off tank 1) - haste
    3)Swashbuckler (off tank 2/dps/utility/AoE)
    4)Assassin (DPS)
    5)Dirge (buffing/debuffing/dps)
    6)Fury (healing/dps)

    The message you can't engage any more MOBS came up regularly and we were fighting groups of yellow heroics.....they fell very fast. A pure melee group like this has no softy "caster" targets as long as agro is kept of the fury.

    IF a group is melee dps heavy there are no better tanks than zerkers/monks in my opinion.
    REJOICE in your role and stop trying to pretend to be a bad swashie ;)

    Cheers :)

    SHADOWSCREAM 57Swashie/59Jeweler (Befallen)
  12. ARCHIVED-firewolf Guest

    Getting agility high is not a mistake. No doubt berserker has buffs that need him to get hit in order to proc. But, when you are into soloing yellow con group mobs or hard hitting heroic named, you will want high agility to avoid more hits. Instead of going exclusively str/sta route, recently I have changed my berserker gear to add more agility and wisdom. So far in exchange for slightly reduced dps, my berserker can take a hell of a lot more beating. From highest to lowest stat is str, agi, wis, sta and int. If you group and raid a lot, you will definitely concentrate on different stats. For me, I value agi and wis more than sta when soloing. Extra hp is just not as good as the added resists and avoidance that agi and wis bring. When you are soloing single arrow up 2 levels above you for quest, every miss and resist counts.
  13. ARCHIVED-Legiax Guest

    I'm open minded, so yea, i can see the benefits of Agility, i rolled with Agi to start off with.

    However, more recently, i've gone for pure Str, the power increase + DPS increase is worth it. The extra power lets you get more defensive buffs off, which make up for not having the extra agility. Also, if you get Vehemence in Adept 3 / Master, u get a lovely little boost.

    All valid arguments :)
  14. ARCHIVED-Kaitar Guest

    My strength is my highest attribute. It not only helps add attack power :p but it adds just plain power which I need since warriors do just...have crap for power ~_~

    Stamina and Agi are almost exactly the same. Wisdom is next, Int is my lowest stat. I guess my zerker's not exceptionally bright but meh... <.<

    At level 34 my Str is 166, Agi and Stam are both right around 85, Wisdom is 70 something, Int is like....<_< 50 MAYBE. Grouped my avoidance is over 50 percent, solo it's 49.7, MP is 1447, HP is 2479, Mitigation with my tanking buffs on will absorb over 60 percent of an equal level mob's damage, grouped with some of my SK's wards and a few extra buffs on? >_> well.... he's pretty beastly for a level 34.

    My zerker is a TANK. He's not a DPS :p the damage my Assassin does puts my zerker to shame, and the SK can out damage me pretty fast too, (He uses a big two hander most times unless we get a link and he has to off tank, then he hot-keys his shield and one hander in) but neither of them are built up to tank like I can. We lack a healer in my static but we can still rip through some pretty nasty heroics no problem. It's all about knowing how to play your class and 'building' your stats for whatever particular role you're going to be playing. I would have to say, even with a higher str or duel wielding/big weapon , my zerker would not come near the numbers the assassin can put out on a single mob. The SK would probably out damage me as well, since he's gone for an Int build with his str a far second, his spells are doing their max damage.

    I think people just get angry about someone out DPSing their class. I don't quite understand why... you know, a warlock is going to kick your butt in DPS AOE and Single, but...can the warlock tank? <_< er, no? Every job excells at something and may or may not be half-way decent at something else. Zerkers will probably make better tanks or off tanks than damage dealers, they can serve as a 'back up' DPS, but they're never going to be in those upper tiers of insane damage. If every class could do everything equally :p there'd be no friggen point in having different jobs.
  15. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    "Well goes to show you dont how to put your Berserker to its fullest potential."

    Yet you one who complains that you can't do crap in raids outside the MT role? LOL

    Remember...I am one who is happy with this class the way it is. You are one who is always complaining about it. Who is more likely living up to their potential here?

    Really, the only way to be uber as a Zerker is to play it as a tank, the way it was meant to be played. We will never be uber DPS. The ones who want to be uber DPS in raids are miserable because they can't have it and they never will. As soon as we start getting noticed for our DPS the scouts and mages throw a fit about it and it gets nerfed back down. Ever notice that? So you might as well just give up on that idea. I tank and I love to tank so I am happy. I may not get into a lot of raids but oh well. I am the MT for my guild but we don't have enough people for it right now. Rather than leave my guild and go with another one that raids more (which I always have the option of doing any time I want) I have no desire to do that because it would be too hard to find one that's decent that doesn't already have an established MT and getting stuck being nothing more than extra baggage on raids is not my cup of tea.

    "Your looking at it all wrong, as usual, but do explain to me how my ability to do damage helps me with the defensive capabilities a Guardians gets?"

    Right, everyone who doesn't agree with you that Zerkers are meant to be pure DPS (which they obviosuly are not) is always wrong. I know, that's your attitude. Anyways, it's not that hard to figure out. We do more DPS in defense mode even while we are tanking than a Guard could ever hope to. Mobs die faster when we are tanking, especially grouped ones, compared to when a Guard is tanking. I think we have more stuns than them too. And I never said that it "helps us with the defensive capabilities a Guardian gets". That doesn't make any sense. Like most of the things you say. It helps to MAKE UP for it.

    "Acually up until Wizards got Rift, we did more AoE DPS then they ever could and Warlocks were king of the AoE DPS hill."

    Yup and that was back before LU13 when everyone was "bugged". LOL

    "Had a good chuckle here, inferus006 telling kaberu that is funny stuff."

    Laugh all you want. Nothing you say here ever makes any sense and in the end you are always going to be the one that's miserable with this class because it's never going to be the uber DPS that you want it to be. I have accepted my role as a tank and I have lots of fun with it. Enough said.

    "Its because of mentailitys like this that get Berserkers in the pickle most people percieve we are suppose to be, people dont fully understand the Berserker class or what jobs we can acually fulfill, and because of posts like this one, its makes that perception issue even worse."

    Nope, the problem is people like you who keep insisting that we are supposed to be a DPS, when in fact we are not, which causes a lot of unnecessary confusion. I can just about guarantee you that every Zerker who insists on playing the wannabe-DPS role is going to wind up being miserable with the class because they are never going to be considered uber by their peers in that role. People see us as tanks and nothing more. Because that's what we are. And if you are unwilling or unable to fulfill that role people will see you as being gimped.

    There is another Zerker in my guild who has that problem. I've known him for a long time and he's had his Zerker longer than me. He kind of mentored me some while I was leveling up and taught me a lot about the class. However, he's always been more DPS-oriented than tanking-oriented. As I leveled up and past him I got more into tanking. He always argued with me about it too, he was one of them that always said "if I wanted to be a tank I would have made a Guard". Well now he has mostly stopped playing his Zerker because he complains that he can never find any groups and he crafts a lot and plays DPS alts while I have a good reputation on my server as being a good tank with a lot of people, so it's usually pretty easy for me get groups for instances and XP. As an MT though, not a DPS. And when I go LFG I get tells from people asking me to come and tank for them. I don't get invites to fill DPS spots very often. And that's fine with me because that's not my job and I know that I will never be as good in that role as I am in the MT spot.

    "Yeah we can tank, i think we established that 18 months ago when we found out that we could wear Vanguard armor, but we also serve another purpose too which it seems some people are just having a hard time ethier learning or seeing."

    Oh really? And what praytell is this mysterious other role you claim that we are meant to serve aside from tanking? Oh wait I know. Because it's not DPS. It's to be the suicide bait for mobs when someone needs to be sacrificed for some reason. YAY!

    "Berserkers can be a jack of all trades..."

    Oh really? We can do backup healing too? Wow man you need to teach me that little trick I didn't know that ROFL.

    "compaired to a Guardian our tankability isnt quite as good as our ability leans to the offensive side of things"

    Your problem is that you are still stuck on the old idea that a purely defensive tank is always a better tank in every situation. And as you've already let on you are stuck in a guild that's full of raid-geared Guards and Pallies that are totally biased against Zerkers. They have brainwashed you into thinking that we are "crapola tanks" and you come here and spew their BS here on our forum. You really need to wake up.

    "people who think we tank just as good as a Guardian ethier hasnt seen a experienced Guardian tank or hasnt seen a Guardian tank period"

    No, you probably just can't tank worth a crap yourself and you have never seen a Zerker playing their class properly to know how it's done and you're totally brainwashed by the anti-Zerker Pallies and Guards in your guild. And then you wonder why you suck so bad in raids? Honestly. I already told you what you need to do in order to be happy. But fine, don't listen to me and be miserable for the rest of your life in this game. My point is that unless you MT with your Zerker then you will never truly be happy with this class. And if you don't like tanking at all then you are just screwed.
    Message Edited by infernus006 on 03-09-200611:53 AM
  16. ARCHIVED-RufusDeMarko Guest

  17. ARCHIVED-Kaberu Guest

    The point was never that we are "uber DPS" ... the point is that we can tailor ourselves to be enough DPS to be a viable DPS choice. Swashbucklers do more AoE damage than their single target Brigand counterpoints but noone seems to discredit Swashbucklers as a DPS class. Sinlge targets... no, we are not so much a DPS class. But if we get adds or pull a group of three or more, even Assassins and Rangers will be hard pressed beat a Berserker.

    The important bit is that if you take a Berserker that built himself as a tank and compared that to a Berserker that built himself for DPS, you WILL see a significant difference in output...

    Another fun note, I've been playing a Bruiser (another "Tank" class) on a PvP server... comments I've had in group...

    Me: Thanks for inviting me
    Them: NP, now we just need a tank
    Me: :smileysad:

    Brigand: There's a group of Qeys, wait up for Bruiser, he's insane DPS


    Bruisers are good at single target DPS, Berserkers are good at AoE DPS... it's the same issue as Swash vs Brig but people refuse to see the potential of Berserkers :smileywink:

    People are impressed when they see three bubbles drop from a mob by a Bruiser, they seem to overlook it when only a bubble and a half drop on the same mob by the Berserker not realizing that it also happened simultaneously on 4 other mobs.

    Although, much of our potential is late in levels, so I can see where some people might not see it before the 40+ range
  18. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    "The point was never that we are "uber DPS" ... the point is that we can tailor ourselves to be enough DPS to be a viable DPS choice."

    Well you can think what you want but that's not really true from my experience. No one is going to choose you for a DPS spot whenever there are any real DPS classes available to choose from instead for that posistion. Why would they? Maybe if no real DPS classes are available at the time you might get a DPS spot but only because the group is desperate. Is that how you like to play the game, though? Not me. I like being actually wanted for something and not just out there as a backup spot-filler. Most groups that you get invited to will be expecting you to be their MT. At least that has always been the case from my experience. And I'm not just talking about people who know me either but when I go LFG and get invited by random people to group that I have never met before, 9 times out of 10 they want me to be their MT, not a DPS. I'm not sure why it would be so different for you. Are you going to turn them down because you would rather be in a DPS role? If so then GFL getting any repect and a repuation with anyone on your server for being a good player.

    "if we get adds or pull a group of three or more, even Assassins and Rangers will be hard pressed beat a Berserker."

    That's only the case when you have both Open Wounds and Rampage up at the same time and decide to stack them. I don't know about you but I don't use mine every time they are up and I don't always use them together either. I kind of like saving them for emergencies actually.

    "The important bit is that if you take a Berserker that built himself as a tank and compared that to a Berserker that built himself for DPS, you WILL see a significant difference in output..."


    Not really. The different traits we get to choose from as we are leveling up are not that class changing or game breaking. A Guardian can choose all offensive traits and still not be that much better of a DPS than a Guardian who went with all defensive traits and they are still going to tank just about as well. And a Scout that went with all defensive traits is not going to tank that much better than one who went all offensive and the one that went defensive will still be considered a DPS even if he doesn't want to be. Pallies can heal but not as well as any true healer class so even though they are sometimes used as backup healers their primary function is still meant to be a main tank, just like us. And there is nothing they can do to change that. So just because a Berserker chooses all offensive traits doesn't make him any less of a tank. He will still be expected to be able to perfom that role just as well and he will have just as hard of a time finding a DPS spot as any other Zerker. Sorry but that's just the way that SOE decided to make this game. The abilities of each class are very rigidly controlled and there is not very much room for any real customization. Even the new AA's don't really change that.

    "Me: Thanks for inviting me
    Them: NP, now we just need a tank
    Me: [IMG]"
    Yep, that's what happens when you play a "light" tank class (ie Brawler). They don't get chosen for DPS spots that much either, because they are fighters and they are still considered teir1 DPS, like us, but since they can't wear plate armor and use shields people don't trust them to tank that much. The only thing they really have going for them is their uber soloability.

    "people refuse to see the potential of Berserkers"

    People see us for what we are. They see us as tanks. We are Warriors, just a more offensive version of the Guardian. We get at least a few of the same spells they do and I would say at least half of our abilities are geared for tanking more than anything else. Because that's our job, that's the role SOE has built us to fulfill. We are not DPS machines and nothing you can do will really make that happen for you.

    "People are impressed when they see three bubbles drop from a mob by a Bruiser"

    I don't know one person who considers the Bruiser to be an uber DPS class. Moderate, at best. Rouge's and Summoners are good DPS and Sorcs and Preds are top of the line. Fighters are tanks and priests are healers. Even the Fury, the most offensive healer class in the game, is still just a healer as far as most people are concerned. How often do they get DPS spots? About as often as we do.

    "
    Although, much of our potential is late in levels, so I can see where some people might not see it before the 40+ range"

    Out of curiosity, what level are you? I'm 66.
    Message Edited by infernus006 on 03-09-200606:17 PM
  19. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    Im not complaining about anything infernus006, i point out to people like you who drive people to think that unless we tank we are totally useless which im getting sick and tired of people getting that mentaility.
    Im happy with this calss because i can fill two roles, and again, no its not DPS infernus006 time to remove your head from the clouds.


    Again, where have i said zerkers are pure DPS, again head in the clouds, you turely have no idea how to play a zerker to his / her fullest potential, so just keep on being a Guardian wanna be, its fine with me.
    If you want to limit yourself to one style thats fine, but you see, i like to do multiple things with my zerker, tank, dps, support role, things which you have no clue how to fill.


    Clearly proves my point that you are playing the wrong class and that people are getting sick to death of you forum banting about how we are good for nothing but tanks.


    Head in the clouds again. Id like to see where i have said where are nothing but DPS, im interested in where i said that......:smileyindifferent: I mean after all, i cant remember where but i remeber a thread here in the zerker forums where i had stated pretty clearly i may add that i had tanked everything in the game except the Djinn Master.......so yeah, i want uber DPS inferbnus006 :smileyvery-happy:


    Yet again, you simply have no idea on what roles we can fill infernus006, you are completely and utterly blind to what we can do when we can do it and how we go about it, all you do is advocate, TANK TANK TANK, and you do nothing but say we are utterly useles in other postion, why? Because you simply have no clue how to play any other postion but click taunts.


    Again clearly proves my point that infernus006, after god knows how long he has been here advocating that we are nothing but tanks and utterly useless at anything else, has shown again he has no clue what he is talking about.


    :smileyvery-happy: i had a laugh too infernus006, i do feel sorry for you man, not sure what guild your in or name of your char, but id like to check you guild and gear out. I think id get quite a laugh there too.


    No you see, i can accept that im not always used as a tank, and i have accepted that i can perform other duties beside tanking, so people like you who at one point in the game which has more then likely already happened to you im sure, because i know the type of attitutde players like you posses, you will be asked to stand down from tanking postion because someone else is better at it and you throw your arms about screaming and yelling and leave the group......why? because you cant handle anything else except tanking, you cant wrap your brain around the fact that we can perform other roles besides tanking.


    :smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:
    We had a good laugh in Zerker channel at this one man, we all did, we thank you.
  20. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    "i point out to people like you who drive people to think that unless we tank we are totally useless which im getting sick and tired of people getting that mentaility"

    Well IMO that is the truth, like it or not. You even admitted that you are useless in raids because you always have Guards and Pallies that insist on being the MT all the time and they won't give you a chance because they think Zerkers suck as MT's. But maybe that's your own fault that they think that way. So what exactly makes you so useless in raids outside of the MT role then? It's because you are playing a class that was specifically made to tank and you refuse to play your class for the purpose it was made.

    "Im happy with this calss because i can fill two roles, and again, no its not DPS infernus006 time to remove your head from the clouds."

    Hmm....this is new. Now you are saying that we can fill two different roles and one of them is not DPS. What praytell is it then? And don't you just brush it off and tell me to go figure it out for myself. I want you to tell me. I would really like to know what other role you think we can fill outside the MT role if it's not DPS. MA? If that's it then of course but even a scout can do that. And that's only needed for certain raid mobs, not every raid mob requires that and very few if any heroic mobs need an MA other than the MT. If that's not it then I have no clue what the hell you are talking about and my guess is you're the one with your head in the clouds.

    "you turely have no idea how to play a zerker to his / her fullest potential, so just keep on being a Guardian wanna be, its fine with me"

    Do you think that a Pally who tanks is considered a "Guardian wannabe"? What about an SK? If not then why do you think that is the case with our class? Your way of thinking makes no sense.

    "If you want to limit yourself to one style thats fine, but you see, i like to do multiple things with my zerker, tank, dps, support role, things which you have no clue how to fill."

    If you want to DPS with your Zerker that's fine. Just don't complain when the scouts and mages are blowing you away in the parser. And if you are MA or Off-tank using Intercede on the MT that's fine too. I never said there was anything wrong with that.

    "Clearly proves my point that you are playing the wrong class and that people are getting sick to death of you forum banting about how we are good for nothing but tanks"

    Seems to me that a lot more people around here are sick of you these days, especially since you are so opposed to having the Juggernaut ability revamped into something that's actually useful to everyone who plays the class and not just someone like you who is willing to be resigned to a support role all the time. And let me remind you that you are one that has been complaining about this class, not me. I like it fine just the way it is. So who is playing the wrong class here, honestly? I am the one that's happy, you are the one who complains. Think about that for a second.

    "Yet again, you simply have no idea on what roles we can fill infernus006, you are completely and utterly blind to what we can do when we can do it and how we go about it, all you do is advocate, TANK TANK TANK, and you do nothing but say we are utterly useles in other postion, why?"

    Because it's the truth, LOL. How many mages, preists, and scouts do you know that can tank and DPS and heal? SOE will never let one class be able to do everything in the game and they will never let us be a true DPS class. You can only manage to be a half-***** one at best.

    "Because you simply have no clue how to play any other postion but click taunts."

    If you think that there is nothing more to tanking that clicking taunts then you clearly have no idea about tanking.

    "i do feel sorry for you man, not sure what guild your in or name of your char, but id like to check you guild and gear out. I think id get quite a laugh there too."

    You don't need to feel sorry for me. Unlike you I actually have fun playing the game with this class the way it is. I may not have all master spells and a full set of raid-dropped fabled gear but I think I do quite well with the resources that I have available to me nonetheless.

    "you will be asked to stand down from tanking postion because someone else is better at it and you throw your arms about screaming and yelling and leave the group......why?"

    You make false assumptions about me. Just the other day I was LFG and I was invited to a group in the Vaults and there was a 68 SK in the group with full raid-dropped fabled gear and I was only 64 at the time. I had no problem letting him tank for the group, I didn't even ask to do it. Of course he did get our group killed and we had to leave the zone because it got bugged LOL.

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