Berserker Line AA's

Discussion in 'Berserker' started by ARCHIVED-Surpus, May 18, 2007.

  1. ARCHIVED-Surpus Guest

    So I see a lot of discussion about the warrior line of AA's. And im maxed in the Str and Wisdom line. Can you guys tell me the best lines to go down in the berserker tree?
  2. ARCHIVED-Schmalex23 Guest

    depends what you want to do TBH. By the way the wisdom AA line is really really horrible
  3. ARCHIVED-Surpus Guest

    Are the benefits of no negatives to you off. and def. stance not a good thing? If not Wis. then what would u rec. to put those other points in to? I guess I just don't undestand what you mean by it depends on what I want to be. Im looking to better develop my dps and keep crowds under control.
  4. ARCHIVED-Schmalex23 Guest

    you're basicly spending 22 AA to get 17 slash/crush/pierce or 19 def. The offensive boost you get from that doesnt compare to the DPS you gain from the buckler line and the def you get from that is negligible at best, maybe a total of 4% avoidance if you gear sucks. I've done write ups on how crappy wise line is before... supose its time for a good old cut and paste. thats the thing, if you havent tried the sta line, the you dont really understand what you are missing. Personally when KoS was released i thought [I cannot control my vocabulary] who would EVER use a buckler. But i wanted to try out all the lines compare them etc and after i had the sta line it was impossible for me to get rid of it. I have only posted this a million times but the wisdom line offers you SMALL benefits. I will break it down 1 by 1 again! Demolishers wisdom: wisdom gives zerkers less then 2.5 to all resists for every point. You will more then likley spend 4 points here to gain 28 wisdom which converts to about 70 to all resists for us. unimpressive Belly Smash: Decent for groups assuming you are using a hammer. Pointless for raiding... over all a SO SO skill Seasoned Veteran: Dependnd if you put 4 or 8 points here you will get +10-20 DPS POINTS. DPS skill actually hits diminshing returns relativly fast, 67 points or so. Not to mention that our zerk adds dps, and 2 easily obtainable adornments add +10 DPS. More then likley you will be wasting points here for anything above 4. See attached picture on what +10 DPS will do for you if you had a top tier weapon, scale down for lesser weapons. 20-70 more damage a hit for auto attack on a top tier weapon after str mods etc... unimpressive Unshakeable: +312 mitigation @ lvl 70. Lets say an average heroic hits for 2k unmitigated, you are going to gain about 2% mit from this if your gear is less then mastercrafted, about 1% if it is higher. 1-2% mitigation of 2k is 20-40 damage more that you mitigate. That is 100% WEAK for 8 points of AA not to mention all the sub par skills you got on the way to get this. Stance Mastery: Basicly what this breaks down to is +19 defense when you are in offensive stance OR +17 offensive skills in defensive stance. Lets talk about the +19 defense first. +19(for me anyways with a high def already) breaks down to about 4% avoidance. The 17 parry offeded in the int line breaks down to about 4% avoidance... hrmm. Wait, the + 14 def in the agi line almost equals out to that as well. OR even better Gladiators revenge will not only give you 4.5 % more avoidance, you will riposte that from the front. 3 viable lines with good skills beat out the LAST skill in wisdom for offensive stance. For those concerned with +17 offensive skills that you gain from being in defensive stance. Int line provides you with about 50% haste if you use a sword, thats an easy counteract. Even if you dont use a sword you still gain 20% haste, which still easily beats that out. Sta line offers 76% double attack.... 76% chance to smack something twice thas a massive DPS increase, way way way more then +17 offensive skills can ever offer. Agi line offers 24% chance to attack any mobs around you as a self buff, again thats HUGE compared to +17 offensive skills. Again, 3 viable lines that offer MUCH more going down the progression tree that beats out the end wisdom skill. The only time you would really even need the + offensive skills is on a raid where you have a massive amount of +skills and you would only be def stance if you were MT anyways. So please for the LAST and final time THIS LINE IS A TOTAL WASTE OF AA [IMG]
  5. ARCHIVED-Schmalex23 Guest

    What i mean by depends what you want to do= you want a straight DPS increase or do you want benefits for tanking as well.... basicly the 2 options our class has. I am a raid MT, so i went down the gutroar line... if i was OT or DPS i would have gone down the bulking line though. Cyclones is pretty much a must for any zerker though.



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  6. ARCHIVED-Slayer505 Guest

    Agreed the Cyclones line is pretty much a no-brainer. I'm OT/DPS most of the time these days. I used to be specced for Gut Roar, but I found that despite it being a useful skill at times, it's very hard to use properly and time correctly. Rather then try and rely on Gut Roar, I got the clicky berserk. I was doubtful of this skill's usefulness at first, until I realized I can just use it to trigger Juggernaut so I don't have to wait until berserk procs. The enhanced duration of Juggernaut is pretty cool too. I thought about respecing to get the enhanced Unyielding Will too since I never use it now and with the clicky berserk I'd be able to guarantee I wouldn't die when Unyielding Will ended. If I was always MT I'd probably stick with Gut Roar, just because I never use Juggernaut when I'm MT and that's pretty much the only reason for the clicky berserk (besides not dying from Unyielding Will).
  7. ARCHIVED-Schmalex23 Guest

    Karsgaar@Antonia Bayle wrote:
    bingo. Not only can you make a nice macro for jugger+zerk but you can also thart the fight in zerk. This allows you to do cool dps increaser tricks like pre pull jugger+destruction and bind wound for a massive ammount of damage for the destruction procs. Gutroar is sweet, but only for a MT really... otherwise its just not that reliable and the DPS increase you get from bulking will be more worthwhile.

    Also i believe unyielding will is bugged, so if you are zerk you dont die(even if you dont have the AA for it)... just a thing to test before you respec to get the AA.
  8. ARCHIVED-YummiOger Guest

    Yes Wisdom line is a waste of APs. WAYYY to many pionts for a so-so end ability. but first u should decide what it is u want to do, Tank? DPS? Hybred?
    Skel, what is the format for the Self Zerk + Jugg macro? i cant seem to set it up correctly, Jug always checks befor the Zerk and will not trigger. wth :evil:
  9. ARCHIVED-Slayer505 Guest

    So here's a question. I really want the hammer from Mayong and if it drops any time soon I'll get it (yeah, he's being stingy about it so far). Do you think it would be worth speccing to get the hammer attack from Wis or do you think hot swapping in a sword for accel strike would be better? I'm pretty sure I know the answet but I figured I'd ask some opinions ;)
  10. ARCHIVED-Schmalex23 Guest

    well technically the hammer attack doesnt work for epics. Although i have seen the debuff land back when i used wis line who really knows if it affects the mobs mit. I would say its not worth it and its only a decent skill for PvP or someone who ONLY groups.
  11. ARCHIVED-Shedlon Guest

    Pretty sure you cant hot swap in a sword for accel strike. The minute you equip a non sword the haste buff is toast
  12. ARCHIVED-Hardain Guest

    Insta-berserk skill in EoF tree is nice, i would gladly spend one point for it, just so i could trigger juggernaut before pull, but i don't want to spend more points in that tree. We had same skill as normal buff at T5, but they removed it :thumbdown: I hope they tweak AA trees with RoK, and make them better, mainly the EoF one. I think they should expand the current trees with upgrades and/or new skills, if they're not making whole new trees, and maybe raise AA cap to 150 or 200.
  13. ARCHIVED-Schmalex23 Guest

    they already said they arent raising the AA cap they are just tweaking the existing AA's. Personally i like the bulking tree alot for OT role zerkers. increased % chance to zerk for you and group is nice and extended jugger is ownage, lasts nearly the full duration of OW. By the time you have both zerks, maxed jugger, and a few in aegis you can get instazerk (only 15 points pre-req). Since i like you guys i went a respec'd to show what i would do if i were OT/DPS role. Also that macro i was talking about for zerk/jugger =]



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    and

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    EDIT: With that macro above you cant move while casting so, depending on how you play you can change the furys out for mayhem or something.
  14. ARCHIVED-Kage848 Guest

    Skel this has givein me something to think about.. Atm im sta/wis line....Im dps on raids ( once a week ) and most of the time im tanking for grps and duoing with my fury....now.... I disagree that 300 Mit is nothing....I think 300 mit is alot for peps that want to tank...I know the % might only be 2 or 3 or so, but i think that makes a big diff even though it dosent seem like it. And when u get agro on the raids ( and we all do lol ) u want that mit to stay alive. A dead Zerkers dps is not impresive. Also i dont know about diminising returns or all the math involved with the DPS mods but all i know is when my dps mod gets up there ( 100+ ) i notice a HUGE improvement in my dps...I like auto-attacking for 2k with double attack and open wounds up....makes for some nice dps. The end in the wis line? Well since i like the line its only 2 pts for me...Thats not bad for 2pts... So all in all the only other line id go down beiceds wis is str right? Agi? 24% chance to auto-attack mobs? % isent high enough imho. Int? i got plenty of haste ( The Delay on my weapon has already reached lowest delay ) Str? Ok str is the line i like the most but i cant do the 10% hate cause its not toggleable and i get too much agro as it is on raids....and i dont have access to an axe thats better than my CoP so...The tradeoff for me from going wis to str is: Wis - 300mit....19% dps mod....stance mastery str - 24% crit chance I was thinking hard about going str cause ilove the crit chance...But i want that 300mit and dps mod seems pretty good to me....
  15. ARCHIVED-Slayer505 Guest

    The meager benifit you get from the Mit in the wisdom line is even less if you're fully fabled. I'm sitting pretty close to 5k mit self buffed without temp buffs, add in some tank group buffs and I'm sitting at like 63% mit. At that point I'm so far into diminishing returns that 300 mit is like a drop in the ocean. Like .1% less damage is not going to improve my survivability any. As for the DPS buff, again, if I'm tank buffed from Dirge and Inquis alone, plus +10 DPS adornment on my neck, +berserk and I'm around 100 DPS almost all the time. Again well into diminishing returns. Wisdom line is a complete waste right now. The point is, you get a minimal benifit from the Wisdom line. You're much better off with Str or even Agi as your secondary. I'm strength spec for max crits and Int down to accel strike with left over points. With DKTM and my DPS jewelery on I'm at 39% crit. That's huge. Melee crit will increase your DPS more then pretty much anything else. You'll also want to get a good crit weapon- anything with a big damage range and long delay. With a long delay weapon you'll get the most benifit from the Int line. I use Vilucidae's Sword of Shielding at the moment, which has a 3.0 delay (stupid EoF mobs being stingy with 1-handers /grumble). With 200 haste it's at 1.6 delay IIRC. The benifits of speccing for haste are only really there if you have a high delay weapon. If you have a faster weapon your better off putting the points somewhere else.
  16. ARCHIVED-Kage848 Guest

    OK thats fair enough but u and I r on comepletely diff sides here....Im not fabled out...I dont have dirges in my grps and such....Most of the time in my raid grp i have me AND ONLY me for anything...So im not sitting as high as u and some others on dps and/or mit. So the 300 mit is more to me than u...Same with the dps... Also raiding is such a small part of my play time that its almost insiginficant. So you see where a casual ( Raid once a week ) gamer like me is comeing from....You have 5k mit, i have 4k selfbuffed....So with that the 300 more mit really helps me, so u see where im coming from. PS: I have no fabled at all....All Leg gear.
  17. ARCHIVED-Schmalex23 Guest

    if i said you could have 3 geo metros... or a porche, which one would you take? There is a reason all the top guards and zerks dont run wis line... its a buncha geo metros:lol: Also, 4k self buffed mit is pretty damn close to what i have (4450ish) and im tanking avatars (hardest raid content) in a buckler.... i promise you can tank heroics no problem with 450 less mit them me. I can pretty much take off half my armor and have no problem with any instance out there
  18. ARCHIVED-Slayer505 Guest

    Yeah, Mit really isn't what it used to be. Nowadays you need to have a good balance of mit and avoidance to be successful. If you're worried about survivability over DPS you might consider going Agility to increase your +defense or better yet Int to increase your +parry. Parry is alot harder to get close to cap then defense so if you're looking at one of those two choices Int is the better choice since the passive haste and accel strike will help you all the time as opposed to dragoon cyclone which will only increase your DPS on AE fights. Really any other line is better then Wisdom. I highly recommend Str/Sta/Int, it's the best spec I've tried so far.
  19. ARCHIVED-Arcrival Guest

    I agree it is all what you want to do. Tank DPS or aa spec for a mix. Me personaly I allways tank on raids but we are a casual raiding guild just finishing up the KOS mobs. Mainly cause of player availability otherwise we would be in EoF 3 nights a week instead.
    My opinion the wis line is good if you are a straight out tank just for the fact that when in Defensive your worn armor effectivness is there and you still don't take a hit on your attack. You got classes out there to buff attk if you have that luxury and are able to put them in your grp. They are right though when you get to a certain % you get diminishing returns that does not mean that you dont get anything though. You may get say 100 mitigation but if at the top of the curve you actually only gain 50 mitigation and as you go up the return shrinks. These arent supposed to be real numbers btw just an example.
    I walk around with 5668 mit and 6415 avoid when raiding I am at 6.5k mit and have broke 7100 depending on who shows up avoidance is easily over 7k. I dont tank with a buckler on some mobs other trash stuff I do which prob has more to do with me having to kill Tarrinex w/ just 5 healers. So from my perspective I believe mitigation is king but split my AA's to where I can do some dps if I am up front. Oh and for the record its obvious on a raid when another tank w/ less than 6k mit is getting hit vs. when I get hit. Tanking i am at around 800-1000 dps but when its multi mobs obviously its higher at times.
    Flip side is this though I wont ever see the dps numbers these guys do. I only do 1500-2000 in offensive and that depends on if its a multi encounter or single. If its single I am down to 900 dps sometimes lower alot has to do w/ duration of fights etc. and Zerkers dont get all the fancy concentration focus strike or accuracy buffs so you can roll the dice on your dps anyway hehe .
  20. ARCHIVED-Schmalex23 Guest

    All tanking really comes down to is mobs hp/damage vs raid DPS/HPS. I could/have easily done taranix with 4 healers while using a buckler, but thats because we have high raid dps and taranix doest last more then 90 seconds. I have posted parses before on why being more offensive doesnt mean you take more damage. But basicly, the shorter the fight the less damage you take saving waaaaay more damage then what you would mitigate by 1-2%. Im also curious as to what you run in MT... because if you dont atleast have atleast one of these three (dirge, templar, warden) then it seems like an odd MT group. And all of them easily counteract your defensive stance loss to offensive skills.