Discussion in 'Berserker' started by ARCHIVED-Dimglow, Nov 1, 2007.
"But if you want to do 20% more DPS over a Guard, I'd like to see where Guardians make up this 20% difference. Don't you think if you do 20% more damage, Guardians should be 20% more effective in taking damage? Unless you are saying that Tower of Stone (completely over rated ability by Zerkers) and 1k more hitpoints = 20% equivalent?"
Guardians are about 20% better at tanking. Tanking isent just about taking hits.
You're taunting abilities r light years ahead of ours. 25%-50% taunt proc when we get hit is a 50% jump.
47% De-aggro on someone in the group is godly.
You ability to intercept damage on others is nice as well.
And you also get S/C/P buff that allows you to tank in Def stance, something a Zerker cant do without help.
Parry buff too
The big issue imho is agro. You hold agro with your abilities and taunts.
We hold agro with damage.
I think when you put it all together tanking is not just about being able to take hits better. And you DO take hits better AN|D you have agro skills zerkers dont get
So yea i think its perfectly reasonable for zerkers to be doing 20% more damage. So if its being said like that then yea id say your 20% better tanks then us. DPS is the Zerkers game not the guardians.
Oh and i play lvl 70's of both on a regular basis so i know what im talking about. When i tank on my zerker i notice the diffrence on how hard im getting hit. It is noticeable.
More power to the Zerkers. I hope ya get some DPS boosts via a marginally revamped EoF AA line.
This is a very good comparison. All Guards posting here will be viewed as crybabies afraid of a nerf bat because someone showed how zerkers are getting the shaft.
I didn't read all five pages but somewhere along the way it should be pointed out that that our nice dps abilities are on a long timer (2:30 minutes without intel line) and guard's nice agro retainer/getter that can override any amount of hate (reenforcements) is on a rediculusly short timer (1:30 as far as I can tell, maxed out). Now add 40 AAs and lets see what happens? Zerkers get to finish the intel line and add to their dps buff - wooo 125%+ makes a nothing difference. Guards on the other hand come a lot closer to our numbers. Guards get to add to their CA damage buffs! Zerkers get to well, regen? umm, wait ill find something good somewhere. Debuffs! we can increase our debuffs - that don't affect epics.
There is also the stigmatism associated with tanking as a non-guard, due to the defensive skills and extra hitpoints. (don't talk to me about useless regen, we all know that doesn't help you survive a hard hit) There was only one top-of-the-line guild using a zerker as MT and now he's even a guard. That doesn't mean I haven't tanked woushi or avatars but I certainly will never be a guilds first choice for tanking. Heck, palis are even chosen over us because amends lets them keep hate with just autoattack going.
We all know what RoK is going to do for us. Jack!
Zerkers need some love. Period.
good to see you finally read some posts.
reinforcement is an awsome skill to be sure... but I've pulled off a master 1 reinforcement with open wounds/destruction on a a regular basis. Nothing is better then lots of damage quickly for hate... not even reinforcement. With the INT line the abilities are up on almost every fight now, unless it's low hp trash that can be pulled 3 encounters at a time.
Uh, yes there is, its called hate position increase... like rescue (or omg reinforcement)
You could do all the damage you wanted...reinforcement peels you and then some when the guard wants aggro back (fyi, adept 1 reinforcement will peel the same, mobs don't give a [I cannot control my vocabulary] about the little couple hundred points of hate when we're bumping up in slots of hate).
Yes, Guardian Sphere works on us [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Go solo something and use it and read your combat log.
I can see where zerkers are annoyed...And it all goes back to what SoE told us at the beginning of the game. Zerkers blah blah damage blah blah lots of aggro blah blah...Guards takes tons of damage well blah blah, take care of party members blah blah.
Also...when did this thread switch from the OPs message to "gripe at each other about overall tankability"? There's already a huge thread in the guard forums about that. I happen to think it's jacked up that guard CAs average more dps than Zerker ones (not that it matters with top end tanks, since the vast majority of dps comes from autoattack, but with tanks not fabled out it might make a little difference...maybe). For anyone who says that guards need more damage because it's harder to solo as a guard....go be a caster or druid if you don't like not being able to solo certain things. Read our class description. We soak damage, both of our classes, and we soak it better than any of the other classes (pallies are closing in though...the sky is falling!)
If you ever expect any of that to change, you're wishing for something that'll never happen...if SoE gives into every classes demands eventually there's be one class in the game that could solo anything and every mob would drop mythical crap...
Edit: and why would anyone think that ToS and Guardian Sphere are overrated? at level 80 we will be able to take 8 hits in a row with no obscene power cost and have no damage done to us...not 50% not 40% but none. Granted you have to be a non-moron to make sure sphere don't floor you, but with good positioning and such almost every mob can be tanked using that ability...
Ahh of course.. the guardians I've played behind just don't know how to play their class... they must be the ones hitting reinforcement then not doing anything after...
Also pulling off rescue m1 isn't exactly impossible either and that's 3 hate positions and a massive hate taunt. .. Damage seems to work extremely well at creating hate.
try this... you and a guardian dont engage till 50% in a fight, i bet he pulls ago in 10 seconds and you never pull it. Threat position is greater then all because it doesnt matter if you are at 1 DPS and your wizzy is at 1000000 DPS, you still win with position increase.
I am a guardian and most definatelyy not a crybaby. I am mostly fabled and have 100 aa's and with all that I still have a difficult time trying to kill a 62^^^ heroic where a similar geared and aa'd zerker would squash the same mob in seconds. I have read the OP's comparison and agree that your CA's need to be brought in line. I agree that your EoF AA tree is pretty craptastic. But please....put the nerf bat down. Bashing on the guardian class will not get you anywhere. Take your concerns to the devs bby doing a /feedback. The moderators have said many times that the devs rarely read these forums and they ( the moderators) have no way to forward any suggestions to the devs. RoK is not live yet and there is still time for you all to send in mass feedback and try to get this issue addressed. Good luck to you.
Leshrac Gol wrote:
This is one guardian with his head screwed on strait. I respect your post and i could not agree more.
I in no way support a guard nerf. I dont want guardians to be touched, i just want a good reason to play my zerker and i dont have one atm.
Leshrac Gol wrote:
I couldn't agree more. Like I have repeatedly said in my other posts, I do not wish guards to get nerfed, but zerkers brought up to where they should be.
And ty Ferunnia, finally a guardian that replies to this thread that knows how their own CA's work instead of having to learn it from the zerkers.
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