Berserk, and how it relates to defense.

Discussion in 'Berserker' started by ARCHIVED-Hunadi, Feb 23, 2005.

  1. ARCHIVED-Scaraxes Guest

    I posted the following in another thread. Ericks assertion that Rage effects defense is incorrect. Following is my post:

    Erick,

    You were so adamant about your belief that berserk does do something to defense that I took your challenge. Here we go!


    I'm currently a level 34 Berserker and I used Green ^^ Skeletal Veterans in Thunderring Steppes to test this on.

    Reckless Stance - Combat Abilities that won't cause Berserk

    Average DPS: 33.8 Average Damage Taken: 1043

    Reckless Stance with Focus Rage - All Combat Abilities not Double Raging

    Average DPS: 42.2 Average Damage Taken: 794

    Reckless Stance with Focus Rage - All Combat Abilities Double Raging as much as possible

    Average DPS: 40.8 Average Damage Taken: 842


    This whole excercise was a great experience actually as it reinforced in my own mind that we DO kill things faster when we are berserk than we do when we're not berserk. The average fight took about a minute longer when I wasn't berserking and that accounts for the lower DPS as well as the additional damage taken. Double raging was really a wash as you can see. It didn't give me any benefits or detriments. It just gave me another little blinky icon to look at. There is one thing I noticed which was strange though and this might explain what you're seeing.

    When I was double raging I would do the whole Xmas tree thing, just blink like crazy, stick weapon in the air and all that. It seemed to really come in a spurt. Almost like I went berserk about 8 times in a row. I noticed that when this happened that I wasn't attacking at my normal rate. It's like I was missing attacks taking time to go berserk. Now what I'm thinking is that if that happens and you go through a 5-10 second spurt of just zerk, zerk, zerk, zerk and you're not swinging then that can add up to a rough loss of around 200-1000HP's of damage that I do to the mob. That loss of damage I inflict translates to 5-10 more seconds of the mob getting chances to power hit me again for 200's.

    For my fights it really was sort of a wash, but I can see where if you got stuck in a "zerk stutter" where it would look bad because the mobs health wouldn't be going down as fast and the fight would take longer. Just a guess. Anyone else tried this?


    Anyone here who wants to do a simple test to prove all of this can do so by performing the following excercise:

    Fight 1 - Soldiers Stance/Reckless Stance only with non-berserk abilities and kill the monster. Then tell us how long the fight lasted and how much damage you took.

    Fight 2 - Soldiers Stance/Reckless Stance with Focus Rage with berserk abilities and kill the monster. Then tell us how long the fight lasted and how much damage you took.

    For any of you who are new to the class I swear to god it is this simple: You kill faster when you rage and therefore take less damage because the fight is shorter. It's just that simple.

    Anyone who tells you otherwise is mistaken.
  2. ARCHIVED-Erick_Stormfury Guest

    So what your saying, you you should strive to only be in one rage?

    because two rages gives you less dps???? this seems strange.


    -Erick
  3. ARCHIVED-Notumwall Guest

    OK, I think some clarification is in order here. Anyone stating their experiences needs to list what level they are and what arts they are using. Not sure if I am seeing that sub Level 30 zerkers are claiming damage taken is going up, yet high level zerkers say it doesn't.
    There's something screwy here. Maybe one of the arts we are using sub 30 IS bugged and we ARE taking more damage. it certainly seems that way to me.
    Here's another thought, if a string of zerk's interrupts your attack speed, maybe it interrupts your blocking, riposting, or dodging as well.
    Just brianstorming and throwing things out on the table.
  4. ARCHIVED-Hunadi Guest

    I'm lvl 29, and I don't see an increase in damage taken when berserk.
  5. ARCHIVED-Erick_Stormfury Guest

    When I did all my tests, I was Level 32. was clearly taking much more damage.

    the primary skills used when taking much more damage.

    focus rage
    balok's challenge
    my damage DOT... (trying to remember the name... furious rush maybe?)



    -Erick
    Message Edited by Erick_Stormfury on 03-01-2005 06:44 AM
  6. ARCHIVED-Toxaur Guest

    ok

    here is the info.


    level 37-38

    fighting green, group con, double arrow up wasps in EL.

    if i DO NOT allow more than 1 berzerk at once, then i can solo the wasps, ending with about 75-100% health.

    if i DO allow berzerks to stack, then about 90% of the time i have to sprint away with 20% or lower health before the wasp is at 50% health.

    so i definitely notice something wrong when berzerks stack, and i definitely think there is some bug that is happening when they stack.


    I cannot solo these wasps when i let berzerks stack. however, i can easily solo them if i only allow 1 berzerk at a time. And the damage occurs AFTER i let the berzerks stack, NOT before.


    i can't test this anymore than i already have, as i have since levelled. But i did test it thoroughly.
  7. ARCHIVED-FamilyManFirst Guest

    Okay, I admit that I'm a Berzerker newb, and I have a question: how do you deliberately limit yourself to 1 rage?
  8. ARCHIVED-Toxaur Guest

    right click the berzerk icon that pops up on the window that has the buffs you have on. then click cancel.

    basically just using focus rage helps.




    NOTE: i also noticed, when soloing the group con wasps, that if you use reckless stance they can rarely even hit you. Without reckless stance, they hit much more often.
  9. ARCHIVED-doraemon22 Guest

    Guys, listen! Berserker WILL NOT STACK!!...you can only have 1 berzerker effect at a time...showing 2 buff on your windows doesn't mean it stack....the high/better one will cancel the low one....
  10. ARCHIVED-AdewaleTD Guest

    Hey people, it's skills, not skill's. Tests, not test's. Jesus Christ, learn how to properly pluralize words.
  11. ARCHIVED-Toxaur Guest

    yes they do stack. but only a maximum of 2. they used to stack as many as you could. stacking 3-4 would result in such incredible damage output that they nerfed it down to 2 and nerfed our berzerk skills.

    and they do not cancel each other... how then, would you end up with 2 on at once without one making the other fade?
  12. ARCHIVED-Lord Nemesis Guest

    I'm a level 43 Zerker, I don't use focus rage, at all. I'm pretty sure without useing focus rage, you can't get 2 zerk icons. I DO manage, however, to stay zerk for about 50-80% of the fight, depending. I usually dump my power and chain cast my skills, especially when we have a chanter.

    I can't comment on the 2 Zerk icons stacking, howerver, if you use the skill Rage, with the different icon, the hastes DO stack, and you get the everliving crap kicked out of you.

    No gonna go into any tests or anything. I haven't done any, im just stating what i've noticed.

    I don't usually even use rage, but when i solo i use it when i go oop, and if another zerk of the "other zerk line" procs, i get pummeled.
  13. ARCHIVED-Toxaur Guest

    i never noticed rage giving the bad voodoo like stacked berzerk.

    but i do the same thing. just dont use focus rage and you're ok.
  14. ARCHIVED-Scaraxes Guest

    For gods sake...

    I want the people who are posting absolutely false information to listen and listen good. You can post till your blue in the face about how you think this and think that, but it's getting frickin' rediculous. Especially when you've been presented with facts that clearly show some of the assertions you are making are false. There are some new berserkers who read these boards and god forbid they read some of the junk info you guys post and actually believe it. Here are the facts:


    1. Having two zerks up DOES NOT stack!

    You only get the haste benefit from one. You can check the amount of haste you're getting in the game. Dig around the boards for details on how to do this.


    2. Having a zerk or two zerks up does not effect defense!

    I am so sick and tired of hearing about this. Going zerk doesn't mess with your defense. I've posted about this extensively. Erick_Stormfury and Toxaur are just plain wrong. Anyone can test this. ANYONE. Do the following and prove it to yourself.

    Fight 1: Reckless Stance/Soldiers Stance and get in a fight with a mob. Make a note of how long the fight took and how much damage you took.

    Fight 2: Reckless Stance/Soldiers Stance and berserk till content and get in a fight with the same mob. Make a note of how long the fight took and how much damage you took.

    I have done this test at least 50 times on all sorts of mobs from linked multi-mob encounters to linked ^ mobs to ^^ mobs. The results are ALWAYS the same. If you zerk the fight is over faster which translates to you taking less damage. I mean this isn't rocket science!
  15. ARCHIVED-Toxaur Guest

    i have tested it extensively. when there are 2 berzerk icons up you start to take way more damage.

    so kindly shut your hole and stop calling us liars.
  16. ARCHIVED-Scaraxes Guest

    I posted statistics to back up my assertions where are yours?

    Take my test Toxaur. Take it. It's a simple test that will prove you wrong and you know it.
  17. ARCHIVED-Thuyker Guest

    At level 44, I've been soloing Green ^^ and groups of 4 green mobs almost exclusively. I still use Focus Rage, and I have two Berserk icons up very, very often. I haven't noticed being hit any harder when that is the case. In fact, the mobs barely even touch me - most of the "damage" I take, I do to myself, using Blood Rage. Last night, several times, I got adds, so was soloing a total of about eight mobs at once. With two berserk icons up, I still didn't notice any increased damage. In fact, I like having two up (since one fades before the other). Against that many mobs, the almost constant berserk is well worth it, since I run out of power and have to auto-attack to finish the last couple.
    Message Edited by Thuyker on 03-02-2005 12:47 PM
  18. ARCHIVED-Scaraxes Guest

    This is false. The Rage skill overrides the normal Rage proc. They do not stack. One quick look at the Character HUD will show you this.

    At level 34 with Adept I Focus Rage and Apprentice I Rage here are the haste effects:

    Focus Rage Zerk gives haste of 41%

    Rage Skill gives haste of 42%
  19. ARCHIVED-CherobylJoe Guest

    This isnt the Guardian board :smileyvery-happy:...let get some civility back in this thread guys; well thought out arguments win here not shoot from the hip flames.
    Scar: I agree with you as I havent been able to replicate this myself either . I think to be fair though folks like Tox have been pretty careful to say "in their experience" and caveats when appropriate. I just dont see a double bers damage casacade like Erick mentioned earlier (and man have I played with alot over the alst 1.5 week). Also before the HUD display was disabled I was only seeing berserk haste once even though 2 icons were up (cant validate anymore with HUD command gone).
    Tox: I believe what you have been seeing, as you have stated before above, is a bug. Just a real pita to replicate. I'm thinkin that there is a combo of berserk skills in the low-mid 30s that dont play well together from a code perspective. Perhaps this is a legacy piece of logic from a time being berserk actually influenced your defense (Beta?); it is possible that there is a logic hole of some kind causing this.
  20. ARCHIVED-Scaraxes Guest