INTRODUCTION I decided to try and lighten the mood since our board has become filled with all the dread of the upcoming summoner nerfs. My goal is pretty simple. I want others to benefit from what I have learned, and also learn from the rest of the necro community. This post is more of a guide to RAIDING and not towards grouping and soloing. Opening the thread up to those categories would greatly increase the size of the posts and I just dont have that time. Before Starting just let me state,I am not claiming to be the best necro or that I know everything about the class. I'm just going to be putting out the information and knowledge I have gathered during my course of raiding. I encourage anyone to correct me on any mistakes I may have made, post suggestions that could improve this guide, or just offer a different perspective. CONTENT [1] Mage vs Scout [2] Achievement Abilities [3] Casting Order and TACTICS Message Edited by Kski93 on 05-21-2006 10:42 AM
Mage vs. Scout I think the easiest way to assess the two is to break them down and look at each pets positives and negatives. I am also looking at the two without aid of AA's. The affect of AA's on our pets will be covered in a another section. +Mage Positives - Due to the +subjugation/focus/disruption that our Mage pet recieves from Howl of the Damned it is easier for it to land spells on raid mobs then the scout. - The mage pet has three area effect spells that do some serious damage in group encounters. - The mage pet heals although very little i'll still count it as a benefit - Provides damage from a range. Although we have to be watchful and pull the pet back out after it runs in, it is still damage from a range. Very useful when a mob has an AE or Melee damage Sheild. - With a troubador in the group your mage will also get the benefits of the proc and jester cap -Mage Negatives - Few hitpoints. If your mage pet gets hit with anything it's almost always guaranteed death. - Damage vs single target doesn't come close to that of the scout. - Runs into melee range after it's casted all it's spells and is waiting for timers to come back up. - Doesn't use Rending fervor since the mage should always be casting and not in melee. - Can't make use of the Haste that Howl of the damned(HotD) provides. +Scout Positives - Higher Damage output on single targets - Makes good use of Rending fervor - Benefits from the Haste HotD provides and procs more. - Higher HP. The scout can take some AOE's but not all of them. - Makes better use of Consumption then the Mage pet -Scout Negatives - Mobs with aoes you are forced to pulse. In the time that it's pulsed out the scout is innactive. - Not as high dps in group encounters - Has a harder time landing hits on higher lvl raid mobs. So what does all of this mean exactly? Well quite simply put it's very situational based on your raid make up and what mob your fighting. I personally am usually in a caster group with a troubador so i've been using my mage pet a lot more. Precision of the maestro(For a short duration it adds a proc to every spell cast by you and your pet) and jesters cap(reduces recovery timers) are powerful tools, and if you haven't been grouped with a troubador your missing out. With the addition of zones like Halls of seeing, and encounters with aoe's like Talendor, Mutagenic, Hurricanus, etc i've found the mage pet more and more to my likeing. It is my belief that SOE is nerfing the scout pet so that we don't just rely on him as our damage dealer in every single instance. Since our mage pet is frailer shouldn't he be doing more damage? I will still use my scout pet on certain single targets for sure, but for me I am parsing just as high with the mage pet, and I really like the ability to be casting at a distance out of harms way. Message Edited by Kski93 on 05-19-2006 02:58 PM
ACHIEVEMENT ABILITIES For me I'm an advocate for two different builds Str/Int(MAGE pet focus) or Agi/Wis(SCOUT pet focus). I will also discuss other alternatives. Since LU24 I've taken a look at my builds. I really have been thinking of scraping the Str/Int build that I have advocated a while. With the last patch I think diversity has become the best plan of action, and this requires a Str/Wis(Diversity) build. Strength/Intelligence Build Strength 4/4/5/8 Intelligence 4/4/4/8/1 This build is built for using the mage pet as your primary Damage dealer. The strength line provides and increase critical chance which gives a huge boost to your personal DPS. If you couple Wild Channeling(11.7%) with Mark of the awakened Intellect(2%) you get a +13.7% chance to critical. With the release of the upcoming adv/expansion pack you can pretty much be sure there will be other items that will add to this as well. It alone is worth taking the strength line for. The intelligence line offers reduced casting timers for your mage pet via Arcane Minion and a power reduction cost with Empower Servant(8points required to get ability). I've also heard that all Achievements that provided increased casting speed with increased rank received a boost. I dont know if this is a deffinate thing yet but if it is we should be seeing some boost to your Arcane Minion AA. So why these two for the Mage build? Quite simply put the others just suck and dont help out at all. Agility gives benefits to scout which were not working toward in this build. Stamina line isn't worth it and the Wisdom line doesn't offer that much either. Our offensive pet stance already offers +31 to disruption/subjugation/focus so the minions uproar that the Wisdom line gives is just redundant. Agility/Wisdom Build Agility 4/4/4/8 Wisdom 4/4/4/8 This build leaves you with 10 points left over to use where ever you see fit. I'll give you my suggestions at the end. The critical chance when used by your scout pet is pretty effective. Since he isn't inhibited by casting timers like the mage, he can burn through his combat art pretty quick. Add to that the haste buff we provide it thats a lot of attack in a short time. More attack = More chances to critical. I chose the Wisdom line because I'm a firm believer that the scout pet really needs the increase to +slashing/crushing/piercing that minions uproar gives. You are fighting raid mobs, which are in general harder to land hits on. Again it goes back to the critical thing More hits landed = More chances to critical. If your scout pet isn't landing all his hits/combat arts your really cheating yourself out of a lot of dps. The left over 10 points can be put into animists transference, minions barrier, a stat you need to boost (probably Wis or int), or distracting strike. I wouldn't recommend distracting strike i've really never had to use that ability even with M1 Rending fervor and Howl of the damned.Are these the only two good builds? No there just the two I would recomend. I'm sure there are some people who chose to do a Str/Agi build. I'm just not convinced that the scout is as good without minions uproar. Strength/Widom Build Strength 4/4/4/8 Wisdom 4/4/8/8 This will leave you with 5 points to put anywhere you want, I leave that up to you. I've already described above why the Strength build is good, but to reiterate. Adding to your personal critical chance is just a guaranteed increase to our dps and anything that guarantees I have better dps is good. It's a solid line nuff said. Ok with the Wisdom line you get some really great abilities, minions uproar and minion barrier. It's pretty simple really, the build lets you use which ever pet is needed for that circumstance, without having the negative sides. Since our offensive stance only increasing the casting skills and not the melee skills, this line will make it so the scout/fighter have increased chance to land there hits. Minions barrier is just good to have up all the time. The heal is nice to have especially if you like to play a less aggresive role. By that i mean you spot heal classes that need some health before that aoe or your the first rezer to always pick up the dead. If you want you can take the 5 points and put them in any skill or another option may be to only put 5 points into the minions barrier which will give you 8 points, so you can take implode. Str/Wis is a very flexible build and can tailored to your likeing. There more room to play around with points, I would just make sure you keep 8 in Wild channeling and 8 in Minions uproar. Message Edited by Kski93 on 06-17-2006 10:48 AM
CASTING ORDER and TACTICS This section is dedicated to maximizing your dps through a certain spell order. I'll start off by saying this is the area where I myself could use some new tricks. So i'll be updating this section more often based on what other people have to contribute. Here is a brief explanation of what I try to do, more to come based on the amount of feedback. TACTICS I think the most important thing you want to remember is that Arch Lich is our bread and butter. You want to proc that thing litteraly as often as you are able to, while maintain all your dots. As a general guideline you want to get all your dots/dumbfires out as early as you can. After you have everything out it's just a matter of keeping a strong rhythm. After I have everything out, I will literally fall into deathrot, abate, deathrot, deathlycoil(for proc), death rot. You get the point pretty much i'm casting deathrot every other spell. The first things in combat you should do if a mob doesn't have an AOE is send pet in and cast Blighted horde. They make up the biggest chunk of our dps and should be first priority. The following is a rough guide to the order I like to use. Again it's very situational, if a mob has high resistance to disease I want to throw loathsome mark after the horde and make sure that lands every little bit of resistance debuff helps. Blighted horde, Awaken Grave, Abate life, Deathly Coil, Death rot, Swarm of bats, Loathsome Mark, Abate Life, Death rot. After this point I usually will refresh any dots that need to be while chain casting abate life and death rot. Also note that during any time where you can't be casting those two spells i will cast deathly coil whenever it's up just to get the proc off lich, same with loathsome mark. If the encounter doesn't require you to stay out of the aoe or if it doesn't have one I will throw in infernal cloud, it's an extra 1200 points of damage and I feel should be used in group or solo ecounters. Whenever consumption is up I will throw it as long as there is 15 second left in the encounter, just so I can get as much out of it as I can. It's important to be a judge of how long the battle is going to last as a necro. It can severely change your dps numbers if your wasting your time with such spells as swarm of bats on trash clearing where the mob is dead within 20 seconds. If a mob has an AOE I always try to let the first aoe go off before sending in any dumbfires just so i know they'll get the most time in there before the next one goes off. I've seen it happen on raids where there firs thing people will do is throw there dumbfires and 10-15 seconds later the aoe goes off and kills them all. This can deffinatly keep your dps high if you just have patience and wait out that first hit. If you dont have a stop watch get one, it's a great investment believe me. Just knowing exactly when that aoe is going to hit is a life saver and will boost your dps, I guarantee. So get a notepad and get a stop watch get those AOE's on timers and write them down so next time you get in that zone you know. Know your role! Alright many people think there is simply one way to play your necro on a raid, and that's do as much dps as you can. I fall into that category myself. The otherway but surely wont get you the most dps is to be more friendly = ) This means your paying more attention to the raid window, when somone drops your right on top of it and are the first person to call out there rez and pick that dead man up. You spot heals those with low life, doing this can save your fellow raider. It takes pressure off the healers since they can just focus on the tank while you heal up any of those endanger of getting smashed by the next incoming AE. Staying on top of hearts as soon as they are called for and not a second later. Hey this way of playing might not be for everyone and you say might be down right dumb, but if your looking to change up your style a bit try it out. You'll still probably put out a solid 1k dps while doing all this as well. NECROS LOVE PROCS I'll end with a few items that can increase your DPS. Death Caster Vest(+60dmg to abate life), Wand of Second Life(10% to proc magic dmg), Mystical Orb of the Invoker(10% to proc Fire damage), Mark of Awakened Intellect(+2% chance to critical). There are many more like the boneclasped girdle(Spelling?), the cap from T6 circlet of living fire I think? Both have procs. Anyway I hope some of you have gotten at least a little something out of this. Please leave suggestions or just talk about what I've wrote here. Please no flaming this is suppose to be an informative thread. Message Edited by Kski93 on 05-31-2006 11:14 AM Message Edited by Kski93 on 06-17-2006 10:56 AM
nice write up! Something you may want to test to see how it compares is to keep death rot going from begining of fight on. it has some nice damage and works well with the longer dots that we have. And as allways lich/archlich is a must for adding more dps in any fight, especially in group encounters.
On your achievement recommendations: The stamina line is not in my opinion useless; in fact it can be quite handy on raids with aoes. I recently respecced to this after reading about the lu24 changes and getting irritated by how much my pet died during raid fights, and was pleasantly surprised on how well the fighter does with the sta line final and a halfway decent group setup. While far from the ideal, in a labs raid today with a conjurer, paladin, and sk in my group my tank pet was maintaining 250-400 dps (depending on the target, of course.. lousy monk mobs) for the full duration of each fight, with no headaches about pulling him back to joust and no worries with aggro. The level of headache depends on player skill, raid setup, your internet connection and computer power, and so forth... for me with a somewhat lower end computer where pet commands sometimes lag out during raids I like the simplicity. For a more ideal setup, I'm thinking a melee dps group with a dirge/chanter/brawler/ etc for melee buffs, and an assassin who wants to go all out but doesn't have anyone to dump his hate on. Tank pet is guaranteed not to die from aoe, and won't do enough dps to have any real risk of turning the mob, so it's an ideal place for scouts to use their hate transfer skills, while still doing reasonably good dmg just from autoattack + procs. Arcane minion is getting boosted in lu24 by the way, rank one on test is 2.5% rather than 1.3%. I'm not 100% sure that's really all that helpful with the caster pet since it doesn't reduce recast timers... meaning the pet will have more opportunities to think about trying to melee and get itself killed.
Perhaps useless was a little a harsh : ) I myself have used the Tank pet a few times as well on a raid, it's just that for how much I use the tank pet I really wouldn't want to invest any of my AA points into it. Also with the upcoming nerf to the tank pets damage I consider the stamina line even less of an option then it was before. As for the boost to arcane minion you bring up a very valid point. The recast timers are still the same and as it is now our pet already goes through all his spells pretty quickly so I'm thinking it's not going to be that important right now. Perhaps in the upcoming expansion there may be an AA or two that will add to our mage pets spell list. That would make it so that he's constantly casting and his casting timers would refresh and not give him a chance to run into melee. Message Edited by Kski93 on 05-21-2006 12:18 AM
Of course DPS is important, but playing since launch myself I belive our utility plays a much bigger role. Those puny trash mobs seems to drop before our dot work really gets going anyways. Nameds and Epics is where I really shine and end up on the top of guild DPS list most of the time. Tried casting dots in different orders, but in the end I dont see much difference on my parses. But why isnt Drawing of Souls mentioned ? I have it M1 and its the first thing I cast, always. The 65 int/str debuff is noticable (crucial for me while soloing) and the spells you get are extremely usefull on those named and epic encounters. Casting the two extra powerfull dots, giving the tank a boost on pull or support heal is priceless. It may be a plague to use, but once you get used to it its a very usefull spell. With decent heal spells (Displace life M2, Soothing Soul M1), ability to FD and resurrect afterwards, hearts so the healers and dps can go a bit further, stuns and debuffs to ease encounter and awesome parking spells (Fear n' Chains combo) I see my role as keeping the puny mortals in my group from being blessed with the wonders of undeath. Lost count of the times I've saved the main tank from falling, the raid from having to start all over or the group from being out-numbered. The dps is there, and its high. I simply just focus more on utility and it really pays off when those grim moments arrises causs of lesser beings (n00bs). The trash mobs dies fast enough already with pet, few dots and abate life. Anyways, a utiliy guide with tactics and ideas would be a lot more usefull than a dps guide. Very nice work on the AA and other guides though !! You hit the rusty nail there... Foul work of decay indeed >: )
Sorry If I didn't state this more out right Nagazch, but this is a thread pertaining to raiding specifically and is not intended for analyzing group play. Although some things taken from here can directly apply to group situations as well. I will take your suggestion though and post a Utility section up as soon as I can
So perhaps we should start a soloing/grouping post of a similar nature. I've only been playing my necro "hardcore" for a couple of weeks, but I don't raid at all, so any info on making me more useful in single groups and soloing would be great. After the bonus experience weekend (I cranked out 11 levels made it from 36 to 47), I'm almost to 50, and I've got a pretty good idea of what I'll be doing for the next 6 or 7 levels. Any suggestions for quests that I can do a majority of solo, then finish off with a group or two would be great. Maybe a guide of good places to solo as necro's level up (for those still leveling up). If the recent poll in the forums is indicative of the makeup of the players, (which I have no reason to believe it wouldn't be, in fact I would guess that the number of people raiding is probably lower than what the poll suggested) then solo, and small group tactics would probably be greatly appreciated. I've read so many posts about how the nerf is going to destroy the class, and that our pet can't tank, but I've found that I can take on solo content that is several levels above me, and difficult ( single ^ solo monsters, or groups) without breaking a sweat. Since I have a 63 troubador, I know what it's like on the other side of the fence, and let me tell you, the grass isn't greener over there.
Message Edited by Jai1 on 05-22-2006 12:59 PM [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] post won't stick. Message Edited by Jai1 on 05-22-2006 01:08 PM
The wisdom line is every bit as important for using your magepet lines as it is for scout. The casterpet gets resisted, and it loses serious dps wihle it cycles to the next attack. whereas our scoutpet will continue to autoattack (the magepet autoattack makes me laugh) Minion's Uproar is the greatest thing since sliced bread. One thing to add that you haven't factored in, I also raid in a troub caster group... The bard line that 99% of bards are using gives us all a 7.5% crit chance (and melee crit chance too i believe) that also affects our pets. so while i'm not discounting it... i wouldn't go str / int. i would do wis / int so you're not crippled if not using the magepet (aa wise, i dont' think we're crippled... until after the LU and we do less dps than wizards and have similar utility =p) Nice post. Well known concepts to some, but a great tool for new nec's looking for advice and raid placement. Zain~
Why is the darkness line in there in regards to casting line up? I use that often to pull. It's a nice thing to get agro - see the Mob stroll in ever so slowly.... In fact I usually cast darkness, followed by Constrict, send pet in once constrict is about done casting, Death Rot, Deathly Coil, heal pet, debuff then abate life..... Another nice benefit is the little fear factor of the mob walking away once the darkness is off - pet never gets hit until it turns around Usually Mob is brought down with the final nuke in most cases.
Zain60: For me my mage has never had trouble landing any of his spells with Master 1 offensive stance. I also use my mage pet about 90% of the time when i'm raiding. You are right though Str/Wis line is deffinately a viable choice that I didn't go over and probably should put into it. It opens up to a lot more versatility, letting you use the assassin/mage pet and even the tank pet whenever you want without any negatives. After the LU if i'm not mistaken they still haven't touched our mage pet so I still plan on remaining with my Str/Int line build. You can do whatever you like though I was just giving suggestions : ) SPAM_is_bad: Well you can use darkness line if you realllllly want to but the thing is, I wouldn't wanna pull anything with that spell on a RAID which is what this article is for. I really have never had the time to cast this spell on a raid, with deathrot up so much more often I would easily rather cast that then this spell. The spell does have it's uses outside of raid though so keep on using it. Uther2000: With the upcoming LU changes as much as were [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing and moaning, mechanic wise not all that much is changing. This article I feel will still be viable, I may have to go back and adjust a few things in it though. I believe our dumbfires are taking a slight hit, and of course our scout pet is taking a pretty huge hit.
I mostly solo and have found the Wisdom line to be the best so far. I have just put my last point into Minion's barrier so it now has 8 points and is adept4. I have found the minion's barrier to be a nice help while soloing and using mostly my tank pet. I use him in Silent city and find I can easily take down two 56^ (Im 56)without a heal-where as before I needed to heal him a few times during the fight. Also a big difference in taking on those 56^^ lions. before I had to use my staff for the 40% heal-now can get by using a minor heal a few times. So far have been very pleased with minion's barrier in the Wisdom line adn would encourage anyone who does a lot of soloing with the tank pet to check it out. If you have other/better ideas or experience with AA's for soloing would love to hear-wisdom is my first line of AA's I have tried. Cheers, Jerril
My own thoughts on casting order - I want to abuse the arch lich proc as much as possible. For grouped raid mobs I would go group dot, awaken grave, lifetap, dogs, long dot, short dot, debuff, short dot, lifetap, debuff, group dot, short dot. Throw compusion early if it is up. Something like this would get all the dumbfires out whilst maximising the damage from the group dot and awaken grave, and landing out 2 debuffs. Once I have pets and both debuffs out I just try to keep all 3 dots runing whilst lifetapping inbetween. For single mobs I dont really use the group dot or awaken grave, I cant justify the casting times. Using similar tactics (scout pet) in somewhere like den I parse from 700 - 1000 extdps [with bruiser / monk / pally / fury / warden (all casual players 68 - 70)] against the grouped heroic mobs. For me decent group dps is more about being properly positioned to be able to group dot, aoe, short dot, lifetap (dead ^^) then dogs, long dot, short dot, lifetap, aoe, stuff for the ^^^. Compulsion and master strikes are desirable if you can use them. However I have recently been thinking that I am not doing all that I could to maximise my dps, so any critiques are most welcome. (I *really* need the 2 dots at m1 quality.)
With the recent combat changes here I plan on reviewing my guide, and putting the updates into it that I had planned to a while ago. I really want to take it a bit further as well, and go more in depth. I plan on starting a new thread as well, to compare parses from different necro community members to help aid in this article. Hopefully we can learn from what everyone is doing and make us all a little bit better. Next time i'm in Lycuem I plan on testing the current condition of all three pets and seeing where they stand. Lyceum is a very good zone in terms of the mobs haveing no aoes and significant amount of HP so I can actually get a decent parse.
