Let's open a discussion on how ridiculous it is for a beastlord to be in spiritual stance and out heal most healers since they can spam click a couple primals for refreshing wards and still do 10x the damage of most healers. Having 26 classes is meaningless when you stack a raid with about 10. Folks who enjoy playing a character looking forward to raiding to only find out that the class they play is not desired because of things like this should spark some change. This of course was the same issue with the beastlord being able to powerfeed a group. Time for change imo.
Thanks for the laugh. If a BL is outhealing your healers, fire your healers. I've healed with a BL on a number of occasions and they don't ever outheal me on any healer I'm playing. A BL can also supplement powerfeeding, but they're hardly a replacement for a competent illy/coercer. And if they're ranged, forget about it. I'm not clear on what content you're raiding in, but it's not current content with 10 players and frankly, I've not been in a raid in years that had more than one BL in it. They have a place, tbs. But it's hardly as overwhelming as you make it out to be.
top guilds use more than 1.....you didn't read the post it was 10 classes not 10 people. They "used" to be able to pf but it was nerfed after it was found to be too strong. Wards hit before direct heals so yes its very possible they can out heal healers. It's way too powerful while they still out dps healers by 10x in that stance. So now you find yourself in a situation where 4 bl and 4 healers and you have already drastically increased dps. Makes the class pool smaller for needs in raids. Very unbalanced.
My mistake on the 10 classes. That said, please cite the raid teams using 4 BLs in a raid--you absolutely have my curiosity up. They can still powerfeed, but it's supplemental and has been for years. We come from two different schools apparently. Healers job is to heal, cure curses and dets, not try to go toe to toe with BLs for dps. Some classes use attacks for healing. I find it notable you don't mention channeler in the dps/heal situation, nor am I calling for a channeler nerf. I'll stand by what I've said and analyzing ACT after raid fights. I've yet to see real healers beat by BLs in spiritual mode. Feel free to post some ACT printouts to support your concerns. Sounds like you have some competitive issues going on in your raid force. There's way too much emphasis placed on who's topping the dps chart and not enough on what other classes are contributing. I'm not discounting the importance of dps by any means--but I do live by the old axiom--dead people don't dps worth a crap. BLs can heal in spiritual and do some moderate power feeding. Last I checked, they don't do a lot with curing dets and curses and we see a lot of that in raids these days. We all have a role in a raid and it requires cooperation among everyone--not competition. A little friendly competition can be fun if used appropriately. We'll agree to disagree.
BL ward more than heal, so they will do better grouped with a non shaman healer. But it has a major impact of their ability to dps. Any healer with same potency / stats should be healing more. I think I'll start a thread asking for a grp cure and cure curse for BL when in spiritual cos when you are in that stance its boring as hell!!!!
Its not about competition its about balance. 4 beastlords and 4 furies is boring and disincentives any type of diversity....Those who want to join into a raid guild find out quickly that their "loved" class is not as loved by any besides themselves. Just read the post and try not to read into it. It'll help you.
the current top guild in the world runs 4 beastlords, 2 of them spiritual. It's a successful strategy. Ideally, you'd have 4 feral beastlords and 4 strong healers, as Fury can solo heal every fight this expac so far.
I'm not calling for a nerf but I wanted to take the opportunity to say I agree with Cropster on this one. See, it can happen!!!
STOP CALLING FOR NERFS!!!!!!!!!! CAPS INTENDED IF YOUR CLASS ISN'T UP TO PAR THEN MAKE YOUR CASE FOR CORRECTIONS, BUT STOP CALLING FOR NERFS TO OTHERS. ALSO I DON'T EVEN HAVE A BEASTLORD, SO DON'T GO THERE.
Openly calling for "Nerfs" is not allowed on the forums. I am very, VERY, tired of people like you doing it anyway, actually being successful at times, and causing players getting justifiably angry and leaving the game. It takes way too long to have a new player actually be viable for higher current content, and there are way too few candidates to even try with anyway. You want to have classes balanced? Great. Your OP should have read like this: Please add the following <insert changes> to these healing classes (names of classes). Furies are good in our raids currently, the other healing classes aren't bringing to the table enough to be equally desired. We'd like to fill our raid with whatever healer class logs on, but tbh we'd rather wait until the 3rd and 4th Fury logs in. Please consider our suggestions, and note that in no way shape or form are we asking Furies to be lessened in any way as they are doing what is expected, no more. Thanks! Instead, you called for yet another nerf to BLs. STOP.
Who are you to come in here and trash someones character who is a good person? A nerf is something that is brought down that is already balanced. You don't understand the meaning of the word.
First off, the classes have never ever been balanced. Second, a nerf is a lowering of ability in either a PC or an NPC, it is not specific to balance. For example, the daggerstorm/unda nerf was because the mechanic related to the increments used to determine the damage wasn't working correctly, not because of any class balancing efforts. Third, I didn't say anything about anyone's character. I have a big problem with all the take this away, take that away from this class and that class that some people do on here, and so do a lot of others.
I'd disagree. Doesn't seem intended that a raid be stacked with so minimal number of classes when the game has a raid system of 24 people and 26 classes. Seems it is supposed to be a team effort and people who play classes shouldn't be relegated to not being able to raid because the class balance is so bad that only a specific few are for raiding. Balancing abilities either bringing up or bringing in line to account for balance doesn't seem to be a nerf. A nerf would be imo something that is working properly and or intended and brought down. We'll have to disagree. Just because you believe they aren't balanced which they aren't doesn't make it right.
You say "potato" and I say "potatoe" and it still makes the same French fries. Let's just let the thread die because the discussion isn't going anywhere. There hasn't been a balanced class system in years across all lines. And classes that get nerfed are done so according to the devs for balancing purposes. You started this thread with a call to nerf BLs spiritual stance because they're out healing healers. You also said a raid can get by with about 10 classes. That's the reality show that's been playing for years. And more importantly, as I stated previously, BL CANNOT CURE DETRIMENTS or CURSES. And in case you haven't been keeping up, detriment curing is critical in raids. Thanks to dirges being able to actually heal noxious damage (if they're specced properly), they can actually parse significantly high on the HPS charts. Yes, there are 26 possible classes to play, but that doesn't mean anyone intended for a raid force to include them all up to 24 positions. Frankly, that's a ludicrous notion. You have 24 positions to fill and you very seldom have 24 players of equal ability playing them. So you take the best players in the classes you need (and maybe throw in one or two potentials) and press on so that everyone wins. Essentially, you need some fighters, healers, dps and utility players. That combination has been in flex for some years depending on how the devs design and build the mob mechanics impacting raids. As those of use who have been around for a long time raiding have seen, class balancing doesn't exist, classes get "nerfed" or "balanced" depending on whose ox is getting gored and raids change class composition to reflect those realities and those of raid damage mechanics. Stop calling for nerfs to BL spirituality because it's a ridiculous argument on this forum and in practice.
