Were listening, were just not buying your made up nonsense.. I will give you a tell whenever I can to try and explain to you what were saying to you.. But be warned, im not going to let any of your BS slide for a minute.. Even sirlutt(spelling) agrees that rangers need fixing, and after talking to him in further detail where we are comming from (although his views are weird ) we are at the same conclusion.
Ment that as in trying to help kaeros.. I know I have gotten PM's from some people asking for advice before hand.. And, when I have helped out friends in MoA.. I have seen some really sad sad looking dps comming out of several classes, that should never be that low int he first place. Like, watching a guardian or bard out dps an assassin, wizard, rouge etc on a consistant basis. Message Edited by LoreLady on 08-09-2006 06:38 AM
I want to help rangers out too, but this idea is stupid and I doubt anyone would ever agree to it, sorry. I'm not going to be forced to use a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty shortbow for any reason.
Yea, I don't like it, and I doubt anyone else will either. I'm aware I don't have to like some random idea from some random guy, but thanks for clarifying it. Gimping all other classes ranged attacks to make rangers look better is a great idea, I don't know why they don't just do that! Yea...
Just reduce all our 60s recast abilities, to 40 secs. That would include Rangers Blade, Culling, Devite, Selection, Amazing and Triple.
hmmm.... lets see i'm a ranger somewhere once upon a time that was supposed to mean something toward being really good with ranged bow attacks. then the devs did what they do best coughNERFcough because we were overpowered with proc damage. then they came back and said long bows should be equivalent to 2H melee weapons. now i can't use a 2H sword or great axe and would probably look silly in my chain armor trying yet every single class that can pick up a bow can use my long bow. for some reason that doesn't sit well with me personally. now if that one change would totally **** every other class then have i been totally gimped from the start because i can't use a 2H weapon. and yes i realize that is a stupid question and a pretty dumb way to look at it but so is your statement about gimping every class out there. especially since i said there should be a normal bow based off of 1H DR which is about what we have now with our long bows so every class would stay the same but long bows could finally be equivalent to DR of a 2H with out everyone getting the boost it would provide to rangers
I certainly don't want to prevent other classes from using bows - that's a bit extreme - but it raises an interesting issue. We can't use 2H weapons at all, or (like all scouts) any crushing weapons. But whatever, that's a discussion for another time. I do think it would be nice if we got some effect that let us use bows better than other classes, though. Like an 'until cancelled' buff that would haste our ranged attacks by a small amount or increase ranged DPS by a slight modifier. It wouldn't fix everything, but a change like that would give us back some feeling of being unique as bow-wielders.
Hmm, rangers should get an extra proc or effect for using a bow. Something of that nature. Like an apply poison type deal, but for rangers only.
It's called Quick shot. Ad3, 30% chance to proc(ranged only) a 427 hit I believe. I was shown a zone wide parse of myself the other day, and this skill does about 54dps by itself. To put this in perspective, no other single CA, did more damage than this skill. Next in line was Rain with 36, and caustic poison with 34. Every other skill did less than 30dps zonewide. Which kinda points out that a good poison is very important and why the INT line of AP's makes more sense, atleast to me. Oh and as a side note when Stream of Arrows was running, it was doing 1191 damage every 1.5 sec, while auto attack range was doing 990 every 3.9 sec(I have a short bow). So Stream of Arrows has earned a nice spot on my hotkeys again. edit for clarification Message Edited by Rahmn on 08-09-2006 10:43 AM Message Edited by Rahmn on 08-09-2006 10:45 AM
Why don't you stop typing for a second and look at how biased your idea is? You could never use 2H weapons, so they don't fall into the equation anywhere. You want to take longbows away from me, which gives me less proc %, less damage per arrow, and less range on my bow. Beginning to see why I wouldn't like it so much? Like I said, no need to **** other classes just to make yours look good, it's counterproductive.
This would be the most effective (and non-gimping of other classes) approach. Perhaps a bow DPS mod based on the players +ranged stat? We have higher ranged modifiers then any class in the game, so this would actually make it useful.
hehehehe... well if a dev actually looked at that and said "wooo boy that sure is a good idea lets do that" then i guess if you really wanted that long bow you could always betray over to a ranger and yes my comment was biased i would like my class to no longer be the 2nd most useless to take on raid... and yes nerfing or gimping other classes is counter productive but look at it from my point of view and imagine yourself looking at the parse after Corsolander and seeing that the zerker standing next to you that just did auto-ranged and AAs [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near beat the "oh master of the bow" ranger. and then on the next named he pulls out his 2H sword and hits just under 1.1K dps while i bust my butt to hit right at 1K
You'll be glad to hear they're fixing Double Attack AAs so they don't work on ranged weapons soon. Since predators are like, the only subclass in the game that didn't even get the choice of a double attack AA, /rejoice. Also, betray to ranger? If I didn't want to be a ranger in DoF (even without the option), why on earth would I want to be one now? :smileytongue: Freeport > Qeynos
Finally a point we can agree on. I have 3 evil toons and yes Freeport > Qeynos. I mean really the trails of Nek Forest have been subdued all the way to N'Marr's Ascent through the strength of the Overlord and his militia. While my low level qeynos alts still get jumped by bears on the trails in Thundering Steppes. Lazy Queen and her worthless guards /grumble... /derail off any way back to the subject we raided Labs and some other zones this weekend i could post the parses but they look just like the others here on fights where people were afk or talking in ventrilio i was on top. on fights where we were focused I was behind conj, assassin, necro, 5 year old girl scout, neighbor's dog, and 1 of the furys. Overall zone wide for labs I was in top 3 but where a month ago i was head and shoulders above certian classes now that they have more masters and fabled gear I'm getting passed by.
I know you guys have Quickshot because that was atleast 50% of your dps in t6 from looking at parses. I just meant you guys should get something a little bit extra, either by increasing the damage on that proc, or by recieving a skill that is like Apply Poison.
ROFL, ok that was good, very good. A much needed injection of humor (however embittered) for this poor, poor thread. Well played!
Wow long thread. I have read a LOT of thsi thread and I think I shall add my .02 One thing I have noticed a few people allude to is the RAID/GROUP organization and class mixes. In my experience, RAIDS are usually organized such that the MT/MA groups have usually the choice buffs and effects placed on them - those classes that happen to be in the MT/MA groups usually will do a LOT better DPS than those outside the groups. In many cases, these "main" groups wil have the MT/MA, a healer (or 2-3) and the rest proximal DPS (assassins/Rogues) for hate transfers or trouby for power buffs and proximity buffs -- as they have the highest priortiy to stay alive. Necros can nicely self/pet buff. Rangers typically are NOT placed in these groups and because we usually have ranged attacks, thr legacy of being a "DPS ****" and are thus not considered "main group" material. Thus we do not usually get the same cumulative buff effects that some of the other "main group" classes do. Indeed, not every guild will even have enough of mix of utility on every raid so some players will get the short end of the bumps-even optimal buffs for MT/MA groups. . I have found that if i am (by some rarity) in one of the main groups or by some luck in a support group with a good buff class I can have tremendous (up to 200-300) DPS gain!! In part esprcially if a the buff is a power boost is present so I can melee more during Ranged CA downtimes). The bottom line is that the raid mix and ranger position in the raid can have a potetially big effect on DPS. That being said... that may help some rangers a tad; but I may not get us the kind of DPS Lock is seeing. This is, as others have stated. maybe due to other major factors: 1) Fabled bows are almost unheard of at T7 and High End quest/ non-raid Bows are generally pretty bad compared to many melee weapons or similar availability. These FABLED really need to drop more often. My fellow guild raiders have more fabled melee weapons than I can shake a stick at ... only ONE person has even MET a player who has SEEN a T7 fabled bow. 2) There are some nice DW weapons but most raids (rightfully so) usually give them to the more melee oriented classes ([expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] / Rogue / Swash / Zerk) 3) The CA timers for rangers are far too long - I have several alts incudingl assassin, fury and a wiz - HANDS down the Ranger CAs are the slowest to recharge - especially the ranged ones. We either need faster timers (given that most Ranger CAs are not comparably high damage as other classes) or we need better damage ratings. 4) Top tier arrows can, help but lets face it, unless you either are rich, or have good TS alt business, most rangers CANNOT maintain that cost along with poisons and repairs... bring back Tolan's Bracers from EQ1 or Give Rangers some sort decent T7 arrow pulls 5) SoA is stil badly borked - when it does work it can give some great DPS but 9/10 times it seems to fizzle for no reason. I agree with the majority of the posters here in the notion that Ranger DPS is a tad low, despite what DEVs and a few naysayers imply. That is not to say that some gear differences, raidmixes and potion/arrow quality doesnt affect that DPS value. Yet I do NOT see Rangers getting anything near the high DPS ranges that i see posted here . Lock is right in one thing... in a 12-16 person raid I am usually in the Top 10, sometimes even top 5, yet in a 24 person raid, especially one with more than a few assassins/necros and brigands.. forgetaboutit! Muffin
