Backpacks on Test: Now Bigger

As a level 80 Tailor, I am overjoyed with this change. Also as a level 74 Carpenter, I understand the concern.
Backpacks obviously needed an upgrade. I've rarely had a reason to make them except for newly born alts. However, I would suggest making the backpacks be 2-4 less slots than the common strongbox for that tier. Though I admit, I'll probably still use strong boxes regardless.

Svetlanavera@Nagafen wrote:

Having watched lots and lots of allegedly game-breaking changes to crafting since launch I'm entitled to optimism. I'm thinking especially about the change from crafted Legendary to sub-par Mastercrafted, and giving Weaponsmiths ammo, which was (if you listened to the forums) going to put woodworkers out of business forever.
It's a capitalistic open market economy. There will be some bumps and burbles for a month or so while the market adjusts, then it will settle out.
PS - I don't have blind devotion. Ask Kiara, or Devon, or Rijacki, or lots of folks. Optimism, sure. Blind devotion? No

Calthine wrote:

Nope, but your specs are pretty rosy!

Deson wrote:

But to be fair, if you were to have rosy specs in any forum, this would be the forum. Erm... in other words I agree with calthine.

LivelyHound wrote:

Cal's specs are so rosy they're even named for her.
But I agree that this so far is the best upfront dev place to be overly optimistic. I disagree with her on the stuff she listed and this working out on its own but it doesn't really matter because we can be sure if bad stuff happens it'll be fixed.
And having said that I'm instantly disturbed how much that is exception and not the rule.

They are very rosy indeed!
I am not arguing that Domino is a bad dev. I don't think that at all. She has great ideas and listens to our opinions. Some people around here, though, seem not to look at the changes with a critical eye. With this change specifically there are many good suggestions on how this change could be implemented to have the least negative impact overall and it seems Domino is taking some of them into consideration and explaining why some are not feasible.
The suggestion that we just all be optimistic and if something bad happens it will get fixed later is a little on the silly side. Why not avoid having the bad thing happen by discussing the change before hand, testing it, and changes it before it goes live? Isn't that how this is supposed to work? Isn't that why we have these kinds of changes announced on the forums and placed on test beforehand? Of course, the economic impacts of a change like this really cannot be fully determined on the test server so the discussions on the forums should be given heavy weight in the process.

vetlanavera@Nagafen wrote:

You misread the exchange. Calthine wasn't saying don't discuss or debate, she was saying don't get panicky or declare the end of crafting or a crafting class. Changes happen and they need time to settle.
The optomistic talk is just making fun of Calthine. It's a really old joke but I'm sure someone will pop in with the item picture. Your broader charge of some people not looking at changes with a critical eye needs to be elaborated on however, as I don't see that enough to be worth a mention.

Deson wrote:

I think Deson is referring to this:


I find my optimism is right more than it's wrong

Deson wrote:

There are a handful of people that frequent these forums that never have a word to say about any change that is brought up other than to say how wonderful it sounds, to tell others how it will all just be wonderful in the end, or to heap praise on the devs. They have been doing this for years. Even when we had a dev that thought tradeskills should be nothing in comparison to adventuring.
That is why I mentioned it. Why do we need other players to step up and tell us to calm down and not worry about changes that are going to happen? We all pay to play the game and so we have a right to be concerned with how changes are going to affect the game we play. If we can voice our opinions before the changes go live and bypass having to deal with poor changes going live why shouldn't we?
With this specific change I worry that one of the few things that carpenters make that are profitable on my server is going to be trivialized. That is why I am hoping Domino will think about some of the suggestions that have been made so far. Not every server has the bustling decorating business that others have.

Svetlanavera@Nagafen wrote:

I will argue that I'm not one of those people, although I do tend to be optimistic. I think this change will be fine in the end; that's my opinion. You're quite entitled to yours, too!

Svetlanavera@Nagafen wrote:

There will always be sycophants and people who side with authority no matter what and just as you are allowed to discuss you disatisfaction, they are going to discuss their happiness with the stat quo. In general though we need people to defend the devs and tell us to calm down for the same reasons we need people to tell us to get riled up and protect our interests. It's part of the normal exchange.
I haven't seen anyone saying don't feedback and discuss, just don't panick.

Svetlanavera@Nagafen wrote:

Look at this from a different perspective.
In the past year (or two, really), carpenters have gotten A LOT of recipes, a lot of "love" and other classes (such as tailor) have gotten none. For a long long long long time, the only thing tailors could sell is SOME mastercrafted armor (which no one wants in the 70s) and bags to mages. While at the same time carpenters have A LOT of recipes they can make and sell in every level range and even make items in the lower levels for peanuts and sell for golds. So maybe this is giving -that- a bit of balance...
Additionally, right now, mages and some priests are penalised because they can't carry 6 boxes without sacrificing good gear (to wear str gear instead), good food/drink (to consume str based stuff instead), adornments that might actually be useful for their 'job' (instead getting str ones), and even sacrificing AA that might be useful for their 'job' (instead, again, getting str). What other class has to change up their gear, their food/drink, their potions, their adornments, or even their AA in order to CARRY the gear they want/neeed to adventure?
Changing bag size to equal boxes currently and then increase boxes by 2... does that change anything? nope. It still means mages (some priests) and tailors will still be at a disadvantage.
Changing bag size to equal boxes makes them the same value for sales but doesn't disadvantage mages/priests. Fighters and scouts still won't care if they have bags or boxes (except maybe for RP reasons) and mages/priests won't be penalised by their class for carrying extra stuff.
Carpenters are not being "robbed" by this. No one is forcing anyone to buy bags instead of boxes any more than they were forced to buy bags vs boxes before. Carpenters aren't losing any recipes, in fact they'll be gaining one. Tailors won't be losing any recipes, nor will they gain any.

Trellium wrote:

This made me chuckle, maybe its server dependent. A majority of sub 80 toons we see are alts. The only mentoring done is to powerlevel them to 80, which last a whopping couple of days. The chronomage thing is a fizzle at best right now. Maybe if they had made it a guild hall amenity (sure we will see that in SF) it would be used a little more for farming due to convenience, but questing? Dont see it happening. Too much mentality of chasing gear which is necessary to due current end cap content. Questing at the lower levels has been deemed a waste of time by all but the completionist style players. Something I personally find sad.
Either way, I can mentor to level 1 and still carry 4 strongboxes easily. I put boxes 1 and 2 in my box of nil space, swap them for 2 packs and good to go.
Personally I think strongboxes should have a huge -AGI, -parry -defense on them. Imagine juggling 6 of them while trying to fight and/or defend yourself.

Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:

A change like that should have been done in the first year and not the 5th.
A change like that also makes it very ackward for bag/box swapping in and out of the bank. If there was a way to move the contents of one bag/box into another without going item by item, then it would be almost plausible.

Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:

I don't understand your theory that SOE adding more quests to the game that require mentoring will make mentoring less common, but its a small point. You obviously never mentor except to powerlevel, so its no issue to you. I mentor frequently to play with others.
As far as "Imagine juggling 6 of them while trying to fight and/or defend yourself" goes, wouldn't it be weirder to delevel yourself from your PhD to grade school just to play with your kids? And, I dont think the guy in the robe with 6 backpacks full of gear will be in a much stronger defensive position. If it's "reality" we are shooting for maybe we all get one box or backpack without penalty, but each one we add afterward is a speed, agility, strength, stamina debuff. Not to mention it doesn't sound too bright to overload like that, so how about -25 Int per extra bag/box. And, how wise is it to be caught with all that stuff strapped to your back in the dark woods with orcs all around? -25 Wis as well.
Whatever the decide on, hopefully the bags and boxes are just equal. Bags with many fewer slots didn't balance it out. Boxes with far more weight and the same number of slots just means that nobody will want boxes. Whatever has been created so far will be far more than adequate; anything new would just be in backpacks.

Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:

Changing backpacks and strongboxes to have the same carrying capacity without any additional changes makes them about equal. Sure you have the weight issue (trivial for fighers, scouts and most priests) with strongboxes, but overall its about equivellent. Adding additional penalties to strongboxes at this point is just punishing carpenters. Unless your fully against adding more spaces to backpacks, I can't see why you'd ask for this.

Rijacki wrote:

That might be a wee bit unfair. Tailors have had a complete stat revamp on every armor set they craft in every tier, including adding in all the missing items, plus improved stats on all the ranged weapons (bandoliers etc.), and hex dolls, in addition to which a complete overhaul of cloth armor appearances to make them far more desirable, and new vests in many levels, plus some gis. All the crafting classes have had a lot of changes - item per item, weaponsmiths have had more new items than carpenters. However, it's really not possible to compare directly class to class since the classes are all very different, have different needs (and different desires) and started off in different places.
Based on feedback, I'm planning to reduce the weight of the strong boxes a bit. This should make it to Test for everyone to check out before it goes live.

I'm all for makin it fair, but I also really like things implemented the way they were originally designed. That means strongboxes in bank, backpacks on person.
How about increasing the weight on strongboxes to something like 1000 but adding 2 more slots to handcrafted strongboxes. That way people will actually have a reason to use backpacks in inventory and strongboxes in bank.

TheSpin wrote:

So how exactly does the carpenter get to the broker? Make 2 or 3 boxes and sprint to the broker? What about players that log out with 6 boxes in their inventory? They need to submit stuck tickets?
Origionall design goes out with the designer. This is a different dev, and I think she's made good calls all the way around. They arn't the calls I'd make, but solid none the less.
If you really wanted to go to a system that makes sense, people would buy a bank vault size directly from the bank NPCs. If you want a bigger bank, you pay for it. Of course, that cuts out crafters all together.

DominoDev wrote:

Tailors can't compete with $tation Ca$h for appearance. Quested and dropped armor will be better stat wise by x4 of a tier, sometimes before.
Weaponsmiths are useless with epic weapons, mythicals, and legendary weapons dropped in zones.
$tation Ca$h has new furniture that should have gone to Carpenter's.
I'm really neutral on bags/boxes because at this point on my server they are on the broker for near fuel cost.